German Black Bees/Black Devils Where are they at these days?

[keeperofthebees]

Somebody has got a box of them somewhere, or a nest of them in a barn.  Swamp bees, river bees, black devils...what else are they called?

Apis Mellifera Mellifera

[lazy shooter]

Somebody has got a box of them somewhere, or a nest of them in a barn.  Swamp bees, river bees, black devils...what else are they called?

Apis Mellifera Mellifera

Where I live, about 150 miles north of Mexico, we have an occasional swarm or hive of AHB.  They usually get sprayed as soon as they are found, because they are discovered by issuing a hundred or so stings.  We had some school children that were stung over 50 times each.

I've got one hive that is hotter than a two dollar pistol.  If you lived closer, I would gladly give you that queen.  I tried to requeen her hive last summer with two experienced beekeepers, and the three of us couldn't find  her.  Of course, it's difficult to keep looking for a queen with thousands of bees buzzing around your head and crawling on your bee suit.

[lazy shooter]

Keeper:

I think the one mean hive I have doesn't collect nectar, but instead feeds their young raw meat.  I fear their honey will taste like sausage. 

[LazyBkpr]

   I used to have a dog that bit people.  In his defense, he only bit people he thought were going to HURT my son.(HIS best friend) He was a beautiful dog, and we all loved him. But after one last episode of biting someone worse than he usually did, he and I went for a walk. It was a long walk, and he had a wonderful time on that walk, but he didnt come back from that walk.
   As much as I loved that dog, I knew that he would get me into serious trouble one day. I will not tolerate any animal that is mean, with the exception being a Tomcat that lives OUTSIDE...  He leaves me alone, I leave him alone. He deals with other cats in the yard, and makes sure theres plenty of wild mousers living in my barn..   goodnuff!!!
   The same goes with bees.  They could make 300 lbs of honey a summer, and Eat Varroa to do it, but if they are mean they get a new queen. They get ONE shot at a new queen only. If they reject her, the entrances get blocked and the fire is started.   
   This world has enough meanness in it without me trying to propagate more.

[Finally Home]

   I used to have a dog that bit people.  In his defense, he only bit people he thought were going to HURT my son.(HIS best friend) He was a beautiful dog, and we all loved him. But after one last episode of biting someone worse than he usually did, he and I went for a walk. It was a long walk, and he had a wonderful time on that walk, but he didnt come back from that walk.
   As much as I loved that dog, I knew that he would get me into serious trouble one day. I will not tolerate any animal that is mean, with the exception being a Tomcat that lives OUTSIDE...  He leaves me alone, I leave him alone. He deals with other cats in the yard, and makes sure theres plenty of wild mousers living in my barn..   goodnuff!!!
   The same goes with bees.  They could make 300 lbs of honey a summer, and Eat Varroa to do it, but if they are mean they get a new queen. They get ONE shot at a new queen only. If they reject her, the entrances get blocked and the fire is started.   
   This world has enough meanness in it without me trying to propagate more.

Well said Scott...

[tefer2]

This subject keeps coming up on the forums at least a dozen times a year.
Why in the world would anyone want any of those little black attackers.
They did make a lot of honey, but you had to take turns picking the stingers out of each others backs. It's been thirty years since the mites polished them off.
If you want a bee with that temperament, just get your self some AHB's!

[caesarsfish]

I caught a swarm of small black feral bees (probably german) last spring and they were mean. After about four months using smoke they tamed up pretty good and they really made the honey.

[brooksbeefarm]

Haven't seen or heard anyone say anything about the German Black bees in our area since the early 80's to mid 80's. and haven't heard to many people say they miss them . Me for one. In St. Clair, co. Mo. around the Big Sac river was one of there breeding grounds, but with the mites and commercial beekeepers bringing in hives for Su Mac honey (Italian bees) they crossed and the feral hives in the area seem to have a mild temper now. Hopefully it keeps getting better, but i guess it could go the other way too. Jack

[apisbees]

The first bees that where brought to the new world by the European settlers were the German black bee. The Chinese that worked on building the railroads would honey hunt the feral hives that had swarmed from the original colonies and set up bee yards and would move them with them as they moved. Along the railways in BC we use to have a good population of dark bees that were the decedents of the black German bee. At the time most of the queen we bought were big golden yellow Italians bought from California so it was obvious when a colony swarmed or superseded it's queen by the sight of black worker bees in your hive. There is some of the DNA still in the muts strains, but the feral colonies were wiped out by the mites.

[keeperofthebees]

This subject keeps coming up on the forums at least a dozen times a year.
Why in the world would anyone want any of those little black attackers.
They did make a lot of honey, but you had to take turns picking the stingers out of each others backs. It's been thirty years since the mites polished them off.
If you want a bee with that temperament, just get your self some AHB's!

No AFB's, only euro-feral stock, etc.  The old black bees are said to make it through the cold winters.  They weren't bred over hundreds of yrs in europe to order new queens every year.  The meanest bulls make the best selection for the herd.  You keep the bees out in quarries & rock bluffs where people can't mess with them.  IF that means I have a fishing night with some buddies and pack empties up over the hill to get the hive yard set up, then so be it.  The trouble with the people free areas is that you can't get to them in rain storms/wet weather to pull honey.  Tire chains and a 4x4, or a big plowing tractor with chains.  We get around up here sometimes   It takes planning ahead and bringing the supers that you need out to the beeyard on pallets.  Why not?...  Think about it.  Supers are swarm traps until you need them.  I heard some of the russies were pretty cranky.

[LazyBkpr]

I also happen to know where half a dozen different bulls that turned mean are buried, Boars and even a stallion.  Know where theres a couple sows buried that tore through galvanized metal gates when we tried to cut her piglets... and a few dogs tha took to biting.  I don't disagree with much, because there is great possibility in most any method. 
   I do disagree with keeping anything that's mean.  (Well, except my wife...      )

[Crofter]

In some areas of the country there seems some substance to the claim that more aggressive bees are also more mite tolerant and good at stealing honey from the meek. Could that be based on local conditions and not a hard and fast rule?

[keeperofthebees]

Keeper:

I think the one mean hive I have doesn't collect nectar, but instead feeds their young raw meat.  I fear their honey will taste like sausage. 

That will go well with the cheese flavored honey jack is talking about from wisconsin.

[minz]

I picked up a swarm of black bees that are meaner than all get out last year.  I was going to requeen them this spring but on our last warm spell I did not see them flying (may be a non issue)

[Perry]

I picked up a swarm of black bees that are meaner than all get out last year.  I was going to requeen them this spring but on our last warm spell I did not see them flying (may be a non issue)

Maybe they're just laying in wait for you to open it up to check! 

[minz]

I went to pour some feed to them last fall and was stung about 10 times before I got the lid off.
Keeper, you would not be a Crazy guy I met in Wisconsin last summer?

[keeperofthebees]

I went to pour some feed to them last fall and was stung about 10 times before I got the lid off.
Keeper, you would not be a Crazy guy I met in Wisconsin last summer?

I don't deny being crazy & I don't deny being sane.

[minz]

We were sitting at a Leons eating icecream after a long hot day.  Roland gave me some honey (was that you) talking about black bees made me think of it.  Just got back from working on some dump trucks.

[keeperofthebees]

We were sitting at a Leons eating icecream after a long hot day.  Roland gave me some honey (was that you) talking about black bees made me think of it.  Just got back from working on some dump trucks.

You're thinking of somebody else bud.  I never show my face in the city when the weather is nice.

[tecumseh]

a snip...
   I used to have a dog that bit people.  In his defense, he only bit people he thought were going to HURT my son.(HIS best friend) He was a beautiful dog, and we all loved him. But after one last episode of biting someone worse than he usually did, he and I went for a walk. It was a long walk, and he had a wonderful time on that walk, but he didnt come back from that walk.
   As much as I loved that dog, I knew that he would get me into serious trouble one day. I will not tolerate any animal that is mean, with the exception being a Tomcat that lives OUTSIDE...  He leaves me alone, I leave him alone. He deals with other cats in the yard, and makes sure theres plenty of wild mousers living in my barn..   goodnuff!!!
   The same goes with bees.  They could make 300 lbs of honey a summer, and Eat Varroa to do it, but if they are mean they get a new queen. They get ONE shot at a new queen only. If they reject her, the entrances get blocked and the fire is started.   
   This world has enough meanness in it without me trying to propagate more.

tecumseh...
very nicely said.  I have found that you have a much larger possibility of getting a new queen introduced if you either knock down or divide the population <I SUSPECT the real problem here in getting a new queen introduced is nervous bees in large numbers.

Brother Adam long ago made a statement about what happened to the black bee from northern europe (often called the german black bee but which my old abc/xyz informs me was Dutch and not German) when the trachael mite arrived in England.  I will also add that there were several races of black bees in europe so every colony of black bees you might run into are not necessarily German Black bees.  There is even a type of Italian bee that is very very black.

my original mentor had german black bees.  after some very early experience in dealing with these the first packages I purchased for myself were three banded italians.