outyard question

[tedh]

Hi Everyone,
  We have an outyard we've been using, this is it's third year now.  It started with four nucs.  The nucs built up rapidly and we moved them into 10 frame deeps, added the second deep, which they drew out rapidly, bringing in nectar from soy beans maybe, and we thought they'd produce big time, what with the rapid build up and all.  The problem was that that's where it all seemed to stop.  They all started to struggle(?).  They seem to supersede queens constantly.  We've had one or two deadouts in that yard over each of the last couple winters, which we'd replace with new splits from other yards.  I understand that some colonies may struggle from time to time with whatever malady they suffer from, but to constantly have problems with colonies in the same yard?  I'd say the problem is us, but we treat all our colonies the same, probably poorly due to ignorance, and our other colonies, in other yards, seem to do quite well.  Some better than others obviously, but good overall.  Could the problem with that particular yard be environmental?  I'm willing to take the blame for their struggling, but it seems odd to be the same yard over and over.  Visually I see no particular difference from that yard to the others, a total of five yards, they're all within a ten/fifteen mile area.  Any thoughts or suggestions?  Thanks, Ted

[neillsayers]

Ted,
From the hip, my guess is ag chemical.

[tedh]

Thanks Neillsayers.  All of the yards are in the midst of "corn country".  Three of the yards are fairly close to each other and so have overlap in forage areas whereas the "problem" yard is further away with no overlap of the other yards.  And yes, there's plenty of chemicals going around, but that chemical use is widespread.  I'm wondering if someone is using something other than the mainstream chemicals.  Or maybe a contaminated water source.  Or maybe im a crap keep?  The folks who own the land enjoy having the bees there, they sometimes park close by just to sit and watch the bees come and go so I'd rather not move them.  But its not much fun seeing the bees struggle with numbers and feeling powerless to help them out.  It's like they're constantly queenless.  Oh well.  Ive got two hives there now, we'll just keep a close eye on them but i doubt we'll move any more colonies there.  Thanks again, Ted

[tecumseh]

In a lot of cases it is more than just one thing.  First I would look at soil type.. sandy soil tends to warm up early produce early but also plays out early.  Then geography.... sites along rivers (riparian strips) has lone been know to provide the best sites for bees.  These sites may also provide more diversity in forage for bees since some of the area will just not work for mechanized agriculture.  Third I would think about ag chemical and recently it has come to my attention, both thru lab research done here and data collection of commercial type pollinator hives, that fungicides along with certain beekeeper applied varroa  products seems to produce a sublethal effect on a honeybee hive.

[LazyBkpr]

Understanding what you are up against....   I am going to have to bump Neil a bit... I am wondering if there isnt something those hives are getting into the others don't? A neighbor that sprays their garden? Something there is different, but it sounds like you are taking the right approach...   I have some hives out at a farm that are seriously struggling and I have always suspected that they had access to something none of my other hives do... of ten hives set there, I also have two left, and I wont put any more back in that spot.

[Jen]

"Or maybe im a crap keep?"

Hi Ted... Nuupe! Impossible! Not if you were mentored by Scott. Not a chance!

I'm thinking environmental as well. 

[Bakersdozen]

While the consensus is seeming to lean towards ag chemical, I was wondering how far away the nearest water source is?  I think a water source that is not close by can add an extra burden to a colony. I'm just trying to think of all the possibilities.   

[tecumseh]

and of course Barkersdozen the quality of the water should not be ignored...

[Mikey N.C.]

Thinking Out Side The Box   the source could be water

[LazyBkpr]

Thought about water too...  but where Ted lives, (Not sure where the outyard is) there are farm ponds and creeks, as well as Draws that will usually have water in them... that doesnt mean the bees arent gravitating to the worst choice...  I have seen bees bypass good clean water and go straight to the nastiest stagnant water puddle in the area.....

[tedh]

I've had the water possiblity in the back of my mind for a while now.  It seems as though when the weather gets hot and dry is when the problems become more pronounced.  There are creeks and waterways close to the yard in question though it's impossible for me to know where the bees water source is.  When it gets hot and dry the water levels go down possibly magnifying the contaminants.  I do agree with the idea that it may not be any one thing but a compiling of a few things with the cumulative effect bringing the colonies close to collapse.  Maybe I should move them.  The beekeeper in me wants to do just that however the neighbor in me doesn't want to tell the property owners that their property is killing my bees.  Ive had two folks ask me about putting bees on their property so other spots are available.  We're working on hive components tomorrow (raining) so I'll mull it over some more.  Thanks everyone, Ted

[Barbarian]

Not quite  "Elementary... My dear Watson"
 
" Corn Country " Hot weather. A wild guess...Gutation of seed dressing [size=18pt}

[rober]

your neighbors will get over it. the bees won't. move them. I had a similar problem with a yard in an agricultural setting. moving then solved the problem.
 any orchards nearby? orchards spray fungicides. while they usually don't kill bees outright when carried back to the hive they kill off brood & weaken queens.