Shortage?

[LazyBkpr]

  Had a class last night, and was talking as usual.. Heard that some of the big suppliers in Cali are canceling orders already because of the drought there?
     I also heard that a couple of the large suppliers stopped shipping because they have had it with the postal service?

   Just wondering if any others have heard this?

[Perry]

I don't know anything about that, but I did learn something very interesting on our home front up here about wooden ware supplies!
Buy and hold folks!

[LazyBkpr]

Wood shortage or?
   Spent quite a bit of time after the class making arrangements to support each other if the supply starts to go to heck.  I would think the suppliers with shipping problems would start using their own trucks and set up designated pick up points..   I cannot imagine how they can stay in business if they just decide to STOP shipping packages.   On the drought... that will pass in time...
    A lot of demand for bees, and problems getting them.. might be the perfect time to plan overwintering Nuc's to sell next spring.

[Perry]

We really have only 2 manufacturers of wooden ware up here. FW JONES, and LEWIS and SONS.
Jones is the largest by a mile, probably supplying 90 to 95% of the product up here. They have been around for ages.
Lewis and Sons are based out of Manitoba and are the much smaller outfit.
A rumour  has it that Jones has halted production (reasons I have heard, but am unable to confirm  ), and as a result stock is disappearing fast. I then heard that L and S have been overwhelmed with orders and their ability to supply is questionable.
With the Canadian dollar having dropped significantly over the last couple of months, options for many (USA) are disappearing quickly.

[LazyBkpr]

Ouch...  well, I suppose I can hook up both trucks to the trailers, go load up on wood, pick up half a dozen new saws and post a sign free beer outside the shop..   Likely to be a few fights when I neglect to tell them the beers free AFTER all ten thousand hives are built      dang, that could be fun!

[tecumseh]

so who are these so called California suppliers < I am confused here and cannot figure if you are talking about bees or bee equipment supplies.... and as far as I know there are no bee equipment suppliers from California.

seems like a lot of folks toss in some venom concerning the postal service..... but as far as I know that is how all of my queens are shipped (coming or going) and they do a pretty good job at about 1/3 the cost of any of the other options. 

finally... as an economist (I have several degrees in that) there is NO SUCH THING as a shortage.... in eco speak there is simply a misalignment of the equilibrum between supply and demand.

the drought in California will have an impact on Almond pollination both now and in the future (current and future time frame).  most of the bees in the almonds have all ready been booked... so no real effect with these.   however in the current time frame folks that went to California with no contract and hoped/expected to receive some sky high price if the demand for pollinator greatly exceeded supply will have likely made the trip for nothing.  at this point in time irrigation water in California is the limiting factor for both current production and for future planting of almonds.       

[keeperofthebees]

Wood shortage or?
   Spent quite a bit of time after the class making arrangements to support each other if the supply starts to go to heck.  I would think the suppliers with shipping problems would start using their own trucks and set up designated pick up points..   I cannot imagine how they can stay in business if they just decide to STOP shipping packages.   On the drought... that will pass in time...
    A lot of demand for bees, and problems getting them.. might be the perfect time to plan overwintering Nuc's to sell next spring.

It's easy...If they stop shipping, everybody panics.  When people panic...the price goes up severely.  When the price goes up the package bee folks(NOT THE SMALL BEEKEEPERS) flood the markets with everyone in a buying frenzy.  Places cut production to raise the demand & create a scare.  Everythings bred to lay itself silly...Then when a nasty weather spell comes along it bites the supply hard.  The guys on the west coast grin with a dollar sign in their eye & go oh well, and kick up the price.  It's just a big numbers game that huge companies play with little guys.  Think of what gets done to the small dairy farmer...  The milk price goes up, and places like kraft flood the markets with cheese, dropping the demand and the dairy farmers price goes down for his milk.

I guess that I've spent too many hours forking calf pens, sweating, and seeing the small family farm go under...Bees aren't any different than cows when you take the name away, and talk about the practice of what's going on. 

Since I started 10 yrs ago, the price probably went up 25% or more on package bees...easily. 

I've been hearing a few things through the grape vine about the raisins in california throwing their bad luck back at us.  Theres alot of big beesnessmen out there ready to let us have it.  I can think of a bee store in wisconsin called Lapps that got screwed out of a semi load of bees(with alot of angry customers as a result) about 2 yrs ago something like that.  It's not all that uncommon to get burned with stuff not showing up...  What scares me is what junk thats going to be left, and where is it going to go but right out here to the midwest to breed with our winter stock that made it through the cold. 

Theres going to be some sort of shortage that comes right back to our pocket books whether we like it or not.  There won't be enough bees to go around.  Keep shopping around until you find good stock & good queens that will last you a few yrs.  An old gal told me not to even bother with the queens that come in california packages...Just get all new queens from a realiable source.  Maybe those folks on the east coast/north east have something good to offer us out here in the midwest.

As far as the post office goes...they're alright for the most part.  Theres just a few contentious lazy people working the offices in the cities, that don't know and don't like scuzzy farmers, beekeepers, etc sending their wares.  That's why alot of places don't want to ship through the post office.  If you're in a big enough city, you just have to get a feel for what location is the best option for you.  Don't ever schedule a pickup delivery in central milwaukee...The service in regards to that is worthless.  A guy is better off with messenger pigeons that were brought back from the first world war.   Some people argue with you about shipping out 5 gallon buckets of honey(dont' ask me how I know).  I walk out the door and go down the street to the other one.  Walking 10 blocks back to the house with a 60lb bucket on an army ruck sack isn't fun....lol

[LazyBkpr]

I was referring to Package Bees Tec, Perry was talking woodenware.
   Talking with Tim Wilbanks who lives not far from here said his father Reg is also having trouble shipping packages out of Georgia and is considering stopping use of postal service.  Tim usually goes down there and hauls bees back up this direction himself to pick up points where people can meet him and get their bees.
   I doubt the supply will abruptly END, but it may become harder to get to them than just driving to the post office.

   I ordered bees from Pigeon Mountain, and in their great wisdom they shipped them on the holiday weekend. 4 days of riding about in hot trucks and sitting in distribution centers...   I managed to keep two of those packages alive. I haven't ordered anything from them since.  It was a learning experience, and if for some reason I ever order packages again  " I " will pay for overnight shipping on them.  Fortunately Tim lives close by so I can always order packages through him and be assured they will go from their hives to my hives within a day.

[DLMKA]

I've talked to a few people "in the know" about this and the drought will have an affect on queen laying rates while bees are in the almonds so they may not come out as booming as in years past. Smaller colonies = fewer bees to shake into packages. Quality of the queens being grafted now or soon to go into those packages may be poor quality and expensive too. Bees do best at raising queens on a flow. A nectar flow can be simulated with sugar syrup and pollen sub can be fed but everyone that I've talked to about raising queens says syrup and sub are mediocre substitutes for real nectar and pollen. I've seen that here with the queens I got from swarms this spring after a summer drought in 2012. The 2013 swarm queens were mostly duds, they just didn't have the laying rates and were slow to build up even though the conditions here during swarm season were good. Georgia is the other big queen producer state and they are having a winter storm of potentially historic proportions today, not exactly the best weather for grafting queens for packages available in April.

[Crofter]

I had queens mailed to me last summer and the service was terriffic. They called me before the post office opened to tell me they were in.

For nucs and overwintered hives I have been driving 350 miles each way to pick them up. Hopefully I wont be doing that any more.

Price last year for a 4 frame nuc was $165. I expect it will be higher this year and later availability.  There are places a bit cheaper but you might be getting imported Hawian hothouse queens. My son has got some sorry looking nucs and poorly mated queens. He is not buying this year but will make up his winter losses from his own bees. You dont get much honey from a nuc here the first season either way.

As for wooden wares, I see Mann Lake is up a bit and our Looney has shrunk but I will only be picking up enough to make some gear for swarm hiving in case all my hives get through the winter, so the price increase is not going to interfere with the rent money.

Beekeeping is getting to be a fairly expensive proposition up here for someone new to get off the ground.

[LazyBkpr]

Ouch.. expensive Nuc's...     I provided the boxes and have ten nuc's incoming the first week of may at $80.00 each. Local bees/queens that overwintered, so Have high hopes for them.  Also have some VSH queens ordered from Tennessee, which are supposedly out of Glenn breeders which I am a little more skeptical of, but you never know until you try.
   With any luck, i wont need to be ordering bees again for a few years. Ordered queens, local queens, and the feral swarms i hope to catch over the course of the next two or three years I should be in good shape to expand rapidly without worrying about supply.

[keeperofthebees]

Ouch.. expensive Nuc's...     I provided the boxes and have ten nuc's incoming the first week of may at $80.00 each. Local bees/queens that overwintered, so Have high hopes for them.  Also have some VSH queens ordered from Tennessee, which are supposedly out of Glenn breeders which I am a little more skeptical of, but you never know until you try.
   With any luck, i wont need to be ordering bees again for a few years. Ordered queens, local queens, and the feral swarms i hope to catch over the course of the next two or three years I should be in good shape to expand rapidly without worrying about supply.

Knock on wood right?  I'm almost afraid of that practice, because if you do knock on wood the bees will get stirred up & come out to sting lol 

[keeperofthebees]

I was referring to Package Bees Tec, Perry was talking woodenware.
   Talking with Tim Wilbanks who lives not far from here said his father Reg is also having trouble shipping packages out of Georgia and is considering stopping use of postal service.  Tim usually goes down there and hauls bees back up this direction himself to pick up points where people can meet him and get their bees.
   I doubt thes supply will abruptly END, but it may become harder to get to them than just driving to the post office.

   I ordered bees from Pigeon Mountain, and in their great wisdom they shipped them on the holiday weekend. 4 days of riding about in hot trucks and sitting in distribution centers...   I managed to keep two of those packages alive. I haven't ordered anything from them since.  It was a learning experience, and if for some reason I ever order packages again  " I " will pay for overnight shipping on them.  Fortunately Tim lives close by so I can always order packages through him and be assured they will go from their hives to my hives within a day.

I wouldn't mind jumping in on a couple of them for good luck.  What can of breeding weather are they slated to have down there?  Does Tim offer replacement queens if they don't lay?

[LazyBkpr]

You can contact him through his site;

   http://www.kalonahoney.com/

   Might want to make it quick, not sure how many packages they have left for this year.  Tell him Scott Sievers sent you, he will treat you right.

[DMLinton]

Price last year for a 4 frame nuc was $165. I expect it will be higher this year and later availability. 
...
Beekeeping is getting to be a fairly expensive proposition up here for someone new to get off the ground.

I just got an e-mail response from my local bee supply - they were asking $175 last Fall before they decided to wait toward Spring to take orders.  Now they are not quoting prices - it's a "We'll let you know."  Not a confidence builder.

[tecumseh]

a lazybkr snip.... I was referring to Package Bees

thanks for the clarification.  lot of good input on this thread and from various corner of the US and Canada.  thanks everyone for their input.

I will add here that unusual weather conditions can and will effect a queen's breeding.  cells are not so difficult to raise in numbers but we pretty well found out here last year that lack of nutrition really effects the viability of the drone's semen.  in the past I have witnessed directly when too much wind or too much rain dramatically effect breeding success.

[Crofter]

For sure it has been colder winter by far than most of the last 10 years. Not many breaks that allow the bees to move cluster. Unless we get a really unusual swing to exceptionally warm weather, queen mating is going to be delayed. We cant do anything but wait and wonder.