Introducing A New Queen

[Jen]

I have a cranky hive, it was cranky two seasons ago, it was cranky last year, and it's more cranky this spring, but the hive is plentiful with bees and the queen is present as of 5 days ago inspection.

I haven't switched out a queen on a mean hive before.

In your experiences, does it take longer for a new queen to be introduced with cranky bees, like leave her in her cage a few more days?

And how many days should I off the present queen before introducing the new queen?

 

[iddee]

I don't wait. I introduce the new one when I dispatch the old one. If going from Italian to Italian, I pull the candy end cork and check for eggs in 7 days.

If changing form Italian to Russian, or other strain change, I pull the candy end cork after 3 days, then check for eggs 7 days after that.

[Bakersdozen]

I don't wait. I introduce the new one when I dispatch the old one.

They will know with in 15 minutes that they are queenless.  You thought they were cranky before...

[Zweefer]

I usually direct release after I pinch the offending queen. 15 - 20 min or so later that is…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Jen]

Cranky hive is getting more aggressive by the day. I can't let this hive swarm in my neighborhood. If it does swarm, the queen cells left behind will hatch a new queen and she will go up and get mated from drones from cranky hive or my other two hives. So the potential of having another cranky hive is at large... right?

[The15thMember]

Cranky hive is getting more aggressive by the day. I can't let this hive swarm in my neighborhood. If it does swarm, the queen cells left behind will hatch a new queen and she will go up and get mated from drones from cranky hive or my other two hives. So the potential of having another cranky hive is at large... right?

Do you have a lot of other beekeepers in your area?  It's my understanding that queens will fly decently far to try and mate with drones from a different yard, to avoid exposure to drones that are closely related to her.  So if there are plenty of other drones around, letting them raise their own queen could solve the problem.  Has this hive ever requeened itself before?  If it has and it's still cranky, then I'd be less optimistic.   

[Jen]

I mark my queens so I know it's the same queen into 3rd year. And I take extra close watch on my hives for swarming. I have beekeepers with 7 hives about 1 1/2 miles as a crow flies. So that 7 different breeds of drones.

I could put on extra layers and go in and see if there is any impending swarm signs. If not, then I could dispatch cranky queen and let them make a new one.

The problem lies in that it will take a couple months living with cranky bees before new queen can replace all the current cranky brood.

I have a place that I can move the hive to, where there are two other hives, for a couple months and do the same process. But I really don't want to make time for that at the moment. It's 3 boxes tall. It will get complicated.

Thanks for listening while I work this out. Because I'm real close to simply locking down the hive and letting it die out naturally.

[The15thMember]

Could you dispatch the queen and combine the remaining workers with another colony?  That would water down the nasty ones, so to speak, and you won’t waste the bees like you would if you just let colony die out. You would still have to suit up and find the queen though. Just a thought I’m having.

[Jen]

Hmmmmmm?!? Very Curious to be sure... let me think on that

Thinking update: The first thing that comes to mind:

    A. Option. I would get into the hive and dispatch queen. Close up hive and let her pheromones dissipate for a couple days before moving bees and capped brood to other hives. If there is enough room to move maybe 5 frames of brood to each of my other two hives... It could be a tight fit.



    B. Option. I could make up nucs with brood and bees. Out of two lower boxes of brood, there would be enough capped brood to maybe make up 4 nucs give or take. The bees in those nucs would then make new queens that will mate with nice drones from my 2 very peaceful hives and the drones 1 1/2 miles away. Wait until they are established and sell the nucs.

     C. Option. The hive is three med stack, the top box being a super. Take off the super, split the two bottom brood boxes, equalize the with brood frames. Let both boxes make their own queen, when established sell them for double the nuc price, of which in my realm might get around $400 each.

What do you think?

[iddee]

I would make 3 single box hives, and requeen them all. Then in a couple months, combine any one that comes out cranky, if you don't want that many hives. """"OR SELL SOME""""

A single box hive will be calmer instantly.

[Jen]

Mr. Wizard "A single box hive will be calmer instantly."

You mean calmer than a nuc?

And if I made 3 single box hives, then later combined two of them, I would have to off one of the 3 queens I bought for the 3 single hives. Queening is always precarious 

[iddee]

I thought you were going to remove her and let them make cells.
Option B and C.

[Bakersdozen]

Divide and conquer.

[RAST]

According to those who profess to study these things, its the drones she mates with that determine the temperment of the hive, so we don't do our beekeeping neighbors any favors by keeping cranky bees.

[Jen]

Iddee "I would make 3 single box hives, and requeen them all. Then in a couple months, combine any one that comes out cranky."

Yah, I did say I would let them make their own queens but that's 6 weeks out and during a flow, so I reconsidered putting new queens in which they would be laying in 7-10 days.

[LazyBkpr]

if they re queen themselves it will be from the MEAN queen's eggs and MAY WELL be just as cranky...  Other than that I cant give better advice than Wally.

[neillsayers]

I'm Team Iddee,
Split and introduce new queens.  Voila! Six weeks later, completely new hive!