Sudden Huge Die-Off; Diagnostic Help Needed

[The15thMember]

I switched the hive positions on 4/18, and today I found the queen dead just off the bottom board and the bees building queen cells.  Would the new foragers have killed the queen?  Or do you think the stress of this whole situation just caused them to supersede?

[iddee]

Stress and possibly injured queen from the pesticide.

[The15thMember]

This colony made about 8 queen cells.  Obviously I don't need to reduce them to prevent swarming, as the colony is much too small.  I either heard or read somewhere recently about a technique where you take down the first capped queen cells and leave the uncapped ones, since the younger larvae are the last to cap, but are the most desirable for making a queens.  In this situation, would it be a good idea for me to remove the older QCs?  Or would it be better to just let the bees know best and leave all the cells? 

[Jen]

Ya know 15th?... After 20 years of beekeeping, I stopped guessing and trying to find the answer to odd scenarios, because there is Always Odd Scenarios! So, what I have adapted to in recent years is:

'Hmm, that's weird?' And take a short minute and think to myself...

Are there enough bees and everything they need to rectify this situation on their own? or can I add something to help them along?

Do they need a little extra food, sugar syrup or a frame of honey?
Would it help if I add a frame of brood to help boost them more quickly?
Should I do an OA fog and check the mite count?
Are there eggs?

Stuff like that. I don't analyze for too long.

[The15thMember]

Ya know 15th?... After 20 years of beekeeping, I stopped guessing and trying to find the answer to odd scenarios, because there is Always Odd Scenarios! So, what I have adapted to in recent years is:

'Hmm, that's weird?' And take a short minute and think to myself...

Are there enough bees and everything they need to rectify this situation on their own? or can I add something to help them along?

Do they need a little extra food, sugar syrup or a frame of honey?
Would it help if I add a frame of brood to help boost them more quickly?
Should I do an OA fog and check the mite count?
Are there eggs?

Stuff like that. I don't analyze for too long.

So, it's obvious that I'm an overanalyzer, huh?       

[Jen]

Well 15th, call me your twin! because I over analyze everything  I'm 66 yrs now. A few years back I realized how much time I was losing over analyzing... and frankly not getting anywhere over analyzing. So my new mode is  "Get On With It Jen!" 

[iddee]

Rule of thumb is, If in doubt, do nothing. The bees have 10,000 years practice.

[Jen]

And Iddee, I do follow that code as well ~ 

[The15thMember]

Rule of thumb is, If in doubt, do nothing. The bees have 10,000 years practice.

I'll just leave it up to them then.  Less work for me!    Thank you for not saying "millions of years" by the way.     

[Bakersdozen]

This colony made about 8 queen cells.  Obviously I don't need to reduce them to prevent swarming, as the colony is much too small.  I either heard or read somewhere recently about a technique where you take down the first capped queen cells and leave the uncapped ones, since the younger larvae are the last to cap, but are the most desirable for making a queens.  In this situation, would it be a good idea for me to remove the older QCs?  Or would it be better to just let the bees know best and leave all the cells?

I wouldn't remove any queen cells.  Let the first queen cull the other cells.
If you have enough bees in other colonies, or colonies you think will swarm, I would be tempted to try a split using some of those queen cells.  You can always recombine if the split isn't requeened successfully.  However you might be reducing your honey crop if you do that.  It's your decision.

[The15thMember]

I wouldn't remove any queen cells.  Let the first queen cull the other cells.
If you have enough bees in other colonies, or colonies you think will swarm, I would be tempted to try a split using some of those queen cells.  You can always recombine if the split isn't requeened successfully.  However you might be reducing your honey crop if you do that.  It's your decision.

I'm up to 9 hives and out of bottom boards, so no more splitting for me this year.  Hopefully I don't have any more swarms. 

[The15thMember]

As I mentioned on my swarm thread, I had another hive swarm this morning.  She's one of my favorite queens, and since I'm out of bottom boards, I decided to just combine the swarm with this small, struggling hive.  I put the swarm above them, with my double-screen board in between.  Tomorrow I'll remove the queen cells from the bottom box, give them a few days to get used to each other, and then remove the board. 

[Bakersdozen]

I wonder if it wouldn't be better to introduce a mated queen to this colony?  Since there was pesticide exposure what is the quality of the hatched queen going to be?  Or sometimes I just think it's a science experiment and let the bees handle the situation themselves.  I just wonder if the bees were able to rear a queen from a day one or day two old egg and is there pesticide residue in the colony?  It's a small colony and a mated queen would help this colony rebound quicker.  Or you could add a frame of brood from another colony.  Either way the decision is yours!

[The15thMember]

I wonder if it wouldn't be better to introduce a mated queen to this colony?  Since there was pesticide exposure what is the quality of the hatched queen going to be?  Or sometimes I just think it's a science experiment and let the bees handle the situation themselves.  I just wonder if the bees were able to rear a queen from a day one or day two old egg and is there pesticide residue in the colony?  It's a small colony and a mated queen would help this colony rebound quicker.  Or you could add a frame of brood from another colony.  Either way the decision is yours!

I basically am doing that by combining them with this swarm.  If this swarm is from the hive that I think it's from, then this is a mated queen, so once they are combined, everything will be back to normal. 

[Jen]

I sure appreciate this forum! Sometimes we just have to hash over a situation or problem until we get a solution, or at least get a solution that we can deal with. 

[The15thMember]

I removed the Snelgrove board today, and I did a quick check for brood in the top section with the queen, and dang it all if there wasn't any!  And I just took down all the QCs in the bottom box last week.    I couldn't find the queen either, although I'd seen her when I hived the swarm.  It was pretty chilly and windy today, and the bees were clustery on the frames, so I could have missed her.  Either something happened to her since I saw her last, or this isn't the queen I think it is, and instead she's a virgin who isn't laying yet.  I gave them a frame of eggs from their neighbors so they can make more QCs if they need to.     

[The15thMember]

Just to conclude this saga, I had another small swarm which I put on top of this hive, trying again to provide them with a queen faster than they can make one.  Yesterday I checked and the virgin in the top is now laying, which is great.  Then I checked the bottom and there was BIAS and not a single queen cell!    So I guess there was a mated queen in there after all and I somehow just missed her?!  Who knows.  Now I've got two queens instead of none.    I figure I'll just keep the one in the top as a spare until swarm season is over.  If I don't end up needing her, maybe I'll put her in her own hive, or just use her colony as a support hive. 

Thanks for all the help throughout this whole thing, everyone.  Never a dull moment! 

[Zweefer]

I love a happy ending!