Author Topic: FRAMES  (Read 53801 times)

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Offline LazyBkpr

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FRAMES
« on: December 07, 2013, 11:46:35 pm »
I dont see anything on frames yet, so will post how I make mine..
  I use foundation-less, but the same principle applies...  More on that later...

   One 12' 2 x 8 x 12 makes 49 top, and bottom bars.. Excluding knots and splits of course..
   At the time of taking these pics I was using 1 x 1 top bars and 5/8 bottom bars.. I have since changes slightly to 7/8 top bars so i dont have to "shave" the shoulders...



   The bar to the right is simply a 19 inch piece cut from the 2x material 7/8" wide.
   Next is the same piece trimmed to 7/8 x 7/8 the piece trimmed off will become the bottom bar.
  The next piece is showing how I trimmed the shoulders which I dont do now
   The last two bars are after shaving the ends and cutting the bevel as well as trimming the bottom bar to 3/8 x 5/8 and 17 3/4 long.  To shave the ends down, some folks use a router, I just use the table saw setting the guide to one inch from the outside of the blade, then lower the blade so it "leaves" 3/8 of an inch. Keep your fingers back, and gently SHAVE the wood away. I use a 60 tooth Diablo blade so it leaves a smooth finish. slide the bar in easy JUST touching the blade until it comes up against the guide. Then work it back and forth until your end is shaved.. flip the bar around and do the other side.. GREAT now 48 left to go!!!     :mrgreen:
   I do a pile of them all at once, set my stool beside the saw and go to work...



  when the ends are shaved reset your table saw to 45 degrees and put the guide on the other side of the blade. Adjust it in, and the blade up so that you JUST miss the shaved section and the blade protrudes from the top very slightly, and run the bar through.



 Flip it around and run it through again.. You should have a perfectly centered point on the bar now...  and that bar is finished.



These bars were all cut from garbage 2x material I got for free;



  Your looking at about 40 top and bottom bars cut from scrap that cost me nothing..  Occasionlay, even in wood you buy you hit Knots and splits as the broken bar on the right shows...  Its just part of the process.. deal with it and keep on rolling!



   the frames done this way should fit together snugly.. this is a frame put together, no nails, no glue.. it fits snugly together AS IS, and this is the goal when your making them;

   For the side bars....
   cut a piece of 2 x 8, 2 x 10, 2 x 12...  You CAN use 2 x 4's if thats all you have but the wider material makes more end plates for less work...   ANyhow, cut the 2x material to length.. I use mediums exclusively. this will work for shallows, but cutting the kerf for deeps you will need another method..

  I plane the blocks of 2x material to 1 3/8 inch in my Dewalt planer. I try to do several of these at a time as well..
   I raise my table saw blade all the way up, and set the guide to shave the side of the block standing on end. I take 1/8 of an inch off each side of the block usually in about two or three passes on each side, until the bottom measures 1 1/8 inch. Its easier and quicker than it sounds.



   I set my router table up with a 5/8 bit, and center the bit for the narrower side of the block and run it through. Try to make sure it is centered as best possible, because this setting will also determine the width of your top notches..



 Once the bottom is done, flip the block and run the top through. Turn it around, and run the other side through.. if done right the top notch should be 7/8, and your top bars will fit snugly without splitting the side plates..



   Now I reset my table saw to about 3/8" or JUST slightly over and adjust the blade up to just clear the top of the block, and begin running the 2x through using a push stick..
  The last two cuts can be tricky, USE CARE or throw away the last piece. Always make sure your blade is SHARP.. more on that later too..
   I put a bucket at the back of the saw and just use the push stick to run the pieces off the back of the table into the bucket.
   I built a jig to assemble my frames.. will get a pic of it soon...    now all thats left is TO assemble them. Glue the notches in the side plates, press the bottom bars in and nail..



   Continued below...  can ONLY post ten URL's      :(
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 07:30:01 pm by LazyBkpr »
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Offline G3farms

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2013, 11:58:08 pm »
Those look really good!!

You guys have just about go t me talked into making frames. Too bad 100 deep and 100 shallows just showed up yesterday.
Bees are bees and do as they please!

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Offline apisbees

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2013, 02:42:10 am »
Nice looking frames do you wire and extract the honey from the frames or do you crush and strain for processing the honey?
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2013, 07:07:56 pm »
I use all mediums, No wires and I do extract /radial extractor. NEW combs I try to rotate down to give them time to harden and make sure all four sides are attached..  I havent had a blowout.. YET... Takes a little more care but hasnt been a problem to this point.

   Updating Pics now!
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Offline Perry

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 07:15:23 pm »
Quote from: "LazyBkpr"
I use all mediums, No wires and I do extract /radial extractor. NEW combs I try to rotate down to give them time to harden and make sure all four sides are attached..  I havent had a blowout.. YET... Takes a little more care but hasnt been a problem to this point.
Updating Pics now!

Would that be the point you're holding up in the picture?  ;)  :lol:
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2013, 07:31:35 pm »
Continued from Above!!!!!

   The goal is to get everything to fit snugly without being too tight.. THIS frame is just pressed together no nails, no glue.. this is your goal when cuttinmg the parts;



I use a bostitch brad nailer and 3/4" brads. two nails in each end.. flip the jig, glue and press the top bars in. two nails in top on each side, then cross nail through the side plate into the pointed section of the top bar for added strength.



   Pull the frames off the jig and set aside to dry....



  Everything you read, and watch on YouTube etc, shows people painting melted wax on the frames to prepare them to use..   I used to do this..  I have also used frames with NO wax, and they still get drawn out..  I was busy melting wax and painting, when another fellow i know stopped in to chat and have a beer..   (I have a fridge in my shop.. NECESSARY SHOP EQUIPMENT!) and he asked me WHY I wanted to waste so much wax? he took a block of unmelted wax and RUBBED it on the point of the top bar, leaving a nice layer of wax on it...  I have RUBBED ever since, and  use less than a tenth the amount of wax now, and the bees still seem to take the hint that says.. PUT COMB HERE.. so were both happy!!

   If you are CHEAP, like I am.. you will push your luck with dull blades.. I use extra care when I know my blade is dull, but I still occasionally ruined a top or bottom bar.. until.. One day, using old 2 x 8's out of an old barn I scrounged wood from.. the old dry piece I was cutting the 45's into on a top bar splintered against the dull blade, and blew back.. it hurt, i pulled my hand back, and looked at my finger.. with a three inch splinter of wood through the tip of my finger...
   I grabbed it to pull it out....  i havent come that close to wetting my pants in years!!!!
   I ended up using my side cutters to cut the skin away and LIFT the sliver of wood out.... then i taped up my finger...



   I put a NEW blade in the saw, and had no more problems...
  Finger is almost healed, but it took some nerve damage to the tip.. cant feel where it healed.. so BE SAFE, and DONT be cheap like me!!!
    Making frames is time consuming, mostly making and shaving the top bars. If you have little time, then BUYING them is your best bet.. I have the time, and enjoy doing it, and it saves me money..  Buying a brand new 2 x 8 x 12 is eight or nine dollars, so the frames end up costing me about twenty cents each to make, unless I can get free wood!!!
  if you want to use foundation, instead of cutting the 45 in the top bar, you would leave it flat, and cut a groove in the center of it, and a groove in the center of the bottom bars. VERY doable if you have the time and tools!
   This frame is still flat, it just lacks the groove for the plastic to fit into;



Good view of missing pinky.. Might make Yall THINK aqbout being SAFE!!!!

    If there is anything you don't understand from my overzealous explanation, please ask and I will try to answer!!
  Hope this helps!
   Scott
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Offline Perry

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2013, 07:42:22 pm »
:shock:  :shock:  :shock:
Now I feel bad for makin fun of of your first owie!!!
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2013, 07:53:16 pm »
:mrgreen:
  No worries..  My hands and knees are beat to hades from too many years of abuse as a Mechanic, building houses etc..  Thankfully my "mean" wife has a masters degree and is making REAL money so I can stay home and tend to her "LIST"...    Although.. I think i would not work half as hard if I had a "real" job....
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 01:35:09 pm »
Pics I couldnt put in above;


    Trimming the bottom bars to 17 3/4..  My Radial arm saw died so I made a jig to do it on the miter saw;



  Top and bottom bars finished  about 40 of them all cut out of scrap wood I scrounged.. so thats about 40 frames that were very near free.



   A close up of how the joint should fit if you do it right.



  and a closeup of my frame jig... I built mine backwards compared to how most do it.. I will probably rebuild it the other way, as getting the frames off would be easier if the inside boards were removable...    this DOES work, but could be better now that i have seen how other folks did it!!



   Hives and frames ready to be put to use this spring.. the cypress boxes WERE all deeps that got cut down.. it leaves me with 4 deeps left to get removed and cut down, then I'll be ALL mediums..  



  One day I'll figure out how to do a video to save space!!!
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Offline iddee

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 02:04:40 pm »
Just my opinion, but I would keep the last 4 deeps with frames. Murphy's law says if you cut the last one, you will need one shortly thereafter.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 02:22:45 pm »
Good Point Iddee... Me and Murphy have had a few arguments over the years....
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Offline Crofter

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 06:47:29 pm »
Save those pieces you cut off! They will turn one of your mediums back into a deep in a pinch. Good for feeder rims, quilt boxes etc. etc. That is if you did not chop the extra off with the side of a round mouth shovel! :lol:
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Offline Perry

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2013, 08:02:25 am »
I tried making a few frames (once) and somehow kept getting the grain running the wrong way and the side bars fell apart for the fun of it. Some of these pics sort of explain why I had that happen.  :oops:
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2013, 08:41:22 am »
well.. dont feel bad... the first side bars I ever tried to make I did that exact same thing.. they looked SO NICE.. but would crumble in your hands. It took a few moments for the light to go on in my head.. been good since then..   I grew up a mechanic, so working wood didnt come naturally and I had to re invent the wheel several times.
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Offline apisbees

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2013, 03:06:23 am »
Great thread your pictures and instructions are helpful in letting others know what is involved and how to make their own frames.
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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 09:56:47 pm »
Excellent. Thanks LazyBkpr!
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2014, 10:54:04 pm »
Thanks for having this info here as well as on your site (Which is where i was lead to thanks to you).
I made my first batch this afternoon, and they turned out great!   I made deeps, and to get the 1/8 cut, I used a dado blade on my radial arm saw. took a couple of passes, and it was done.  I think I'll do the medium frames the same way, as it seems like an awful lot of blade to have up and cutting the way you suggest :)
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Offline Jen

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2014, 11:01:23 pm »
Uh Oh Zweef! Now I know your hooked when you start building your own wooden ware. Have Fun buddy!
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2014, 11:59:58 pm »
Good deal Zweefer. With a little ingenuity you could use the dado blade as a planer to shave the 1.5" boards down to 1 3/8 etc...    I have dado blades, but they are pretty expensive, both to buy and to have sharpened. I have no idea how many frames I have made..  over a thousand of my own and probably that many more I have sold.
   I have had a few folks complain of warping as the newly cut frames start to dry..   I have had a few warp, usually near knots. Good dry wood completely eliminates the problem. If you can get boards from old houses, barns etc they will make better frames with less warping..   It seems Menards, lowes etc does not check the moisture content, they buy and resell what they get.They claim their boards are dried to 12 to 15% moisture content, and had no comment when I said that their boards had over 22% moisture.
   Buying boards from a local lumber yard has helped quite a bit with warpage, but usually costs about two dollars more per board.
   I need to do a better vid of making the frames...  probably wont happen until it starts getting cold again.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 12:08:34 am by LazyBkpr »
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Offline Lburou

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Re: FRAMES
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2014, 12:05:25 am »
Thanks for giving me courage to attempt some frames!  They are up to $1.10 at ML now.....

:-)
Lee_Burough