Author Topic: Sustainable two hive bee keeping (Read 13671 times)

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #20 on:** March 01, 2014, 06:49:06 pm »

Someone mentioned doing this to all your hives. I don't. My favorite queens are the ones born after the summer solstice. June 21 I'll start my growing. The flow is about over and I have lots of bees. These fill a ten frame deep and overwinter here just fine. They need a little feed of course since they missed the spring flow.

I've personally never had a swarm from a queen born in the late summer the first year. I'm sure it could happen. Especially if you don't give them enough room. You have to stay on top of em, these young overwintered queens are impressive.

It's the following year that I pull them if they haven't been superseded. Some will be superseded even though their laying like gangbusters. I assume the bees have their reasons and I don't argue with them.

A whole lot of what I do is just follow my gut. It's often wrong but every time I lose/kill a hive I try to learn something from it.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #21 on:** March 01, 2014, 06:53:21 pm »

every time I lose/kill a hive I try to learn something from it.

cant argue with that! Hope they make enough bees for me to get it all figured out!!!!

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #22 on:** March 01, 2014, 07:01:22 pm »

Lazy
I've raised some good queens in nucs. But they had to be strong nucs.
Here's the problem I've always had with pulling the queen. Sometimes things go wrong. They don't make it back from their mating flights etc.

When this happens unless your really on top of things this hive won't make surplus honey this year. Whereas if you pull a nuc from a strong hive, or as I usually do from 3 to 5 hives they won't miss a beat

If you have five strong hives you could pull a frame from each about every week and it wouldent hurt them much. You could start a nuc every week and combine the few that don't make it back.
Keeping a gap in the brood nest really helps with swarming also.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #23 on:** March 01, 2014, 08:31:15 pm »

hehe, I couldn't agree more!

http://outyard.weebly.com/queens.html

STRONG nuc's, and setting the queen aside in case there are problems with the new queen!

Maintaining NUC's means you will need to pull frames of brood from those nuc's, and what better place to put them? In the newly started hives. Using that brood from nuc's, and even production hives that you are trying to keep from swarming will make those new hives INTO production hives in their first year. Of course, depending on the amount of hives and nuc's being maintained....
NOT as easy with two hives, but with two hives and two Nuc's ? I have not thought much about it on that scale. With two hives I may be more inclined to order a package if one of them died.. but.. The vid that started me on the original idea of a sustainable apiary, and why I will be overwintering nucs next winter instead of selling them..

Jen · « **Reply #24 on:** March 02, 2014, 12:07:30 am »

Lazy- Been watching this vid a little at a time, in between chores. Really like this speaker.

DonMcJr · « **Reply #25 on:** March 02, 2014, 03:28:49 am »

All good info to listen to then do what I feel is best after listening

Thanks though another way you learn is to sit back and watch the fighting....errr...I mean listen LMAO

tecumseh · « **Reply #26 on:** March 02, 2014, 06:30:20 am »

a Don snip...

Has anyone heard about doing a split and setting the Nuc right next to the hive at a 45 degree angle?

tecumseh...
I am not absolutely certain of what a person might be trying to do here but do your really think the angle mentioned here is important?

just between me and you.... several years ago I met the person mentioned in your opening thread and I really got the impression that I have hive tools that have spent more time in a bee yard than the person mentioned.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #27 on:** March 02, 2014, 08:46:50 am »

Quote from: DonMcJr on March 02, 2014, 03:28:49 am

All good info to listen to then do what I feel is best after listening

Thanks though another way you learn is to sit back and watch the fighting....errr...I mean listen LMAO

But isn't that the entire point?
If I argue something, and am shown the error of my ways it generally leads to a modification of how I do it. So finding that you have been a dope is painful to the ego, but beneficial to the bees.
So.. Pirate time!

lazy shooter · « **Reply #28 on:** March 02, 2014, 08:54:55 am »

Michael palmer is moving his bees nucs when they are formed, and he is also adding a queen. Does a nuc have to be moved when it is formed?

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #29 on:** March 02, 2014, 09:06:26 am »

I don't move mine. I let the foragers return to the original hive and I feed the nuc. With two or three frames of capped brood covered with nurse bees, there will be new foragers orienting within a day or two.

If you want to keep your foragers, change the orientation of the entrance, and block it with something. A piece of wood leaned across the entrance etc.. just something to stop the bees from ZOOMING off when the leave. Make then notice something has changed so they re orient.
This is on my list of things to video this spring.

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #30 on:** March 02, 2014, 05:41:08 pm »

I don't necessarily move mine either. If there is a flow on I feed if not I don't feed. I do make sure the frames I put in have a good honey band and I may add another frame of honey. I tend to add a frame of emerging brood. This does not help build a queen but the frame they came out of will help her and this will be her work force when she needs one.

The reason I don't feed. All of the nucs I had required a board man feeder. These are fine if there's a flow on. They are not fine in a dearth. I built some nucs this year that will have a jar feeder in the top near the back.

As I've said I build most of my nucs after the spring flow so I have to be careful about feeding. While I believe thin syrup would be beneficial. I've found about all most home raised queens need is a chance and enough bees to cover their brood. Of course they have to have enough food but it seems they know their behind and they intend to catch up.

Can you tell I love young queens.

Jen · « **Reply #31 on:** March 02, 2014, 06:09:50 pm »

Woody ""If there is a flow on I feed if not I don't feed.""

Um, scratching head. K, help me out here, this is a new subject for me

I think I need a bigger picture

If there is a flo on...? then you feed them, so they can put the nectar away for later stores?

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #32 on:** March 02, 2014, 06:45:51 pm »

Jen
When I start a nuc whether I put the queen in or let them raise their own the field bees will return to the old hive. This is why I put in a frame of emerging brood. They will not have a field force when first started.

If there's a flow on bees are not prone to rob so I can get away with feeding. If you feed these small hives with a boardman feeder during a dearth they are likely to get robbed out.

If there's not a flow on I usually put in plenty of open and capped food and close the entrance down to about two or three bees. I've never had a problem with this setup.

Once the queen is laying the chances of getting robbed go down for some reason. But during the first few weeks it's a real risk.

Hope this helps, I'm not very good at saying what I'm thinking. Woody

iddee · « **Reply #33 on:** March 02, 2014, 06:49:48 pm »

Good description, woody. Very thorough.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #34 on:** March 02, 2014, 10:13:52 pm »

An entrance feeder will be too close to the entrance itself, even if reduced you still only have a couple of inches from feeder to the reduced entrance.
On a full size hive you will have a larger distance. Ten inches or so from the feeder to the opposite side where the reduced entrance should be, making it harder for robbers to get to it. A board leaned across the entrance, a screen etc to keep the would be robbers from zipping in past the guard bees will also help. But the nuc is just too small.
I have nuc's with holes in the top, but I really don't like to do that.. Seems like anything shy of siliconing something over the hole still leaks.
I have built some feeders.. entrance style.. so that you can put a nuc bottom board on top the nuc and slide the feeder in it, then block the rest of the top entrance. That way you can put them on the Rear of the nuc at the top... but I have not tried them to see how they work yet. If they work well, I will post about them, but not until I see what kinds of problems they cause.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #35 on:** March 02, 2014, 10:47:32 pm »

You can see in the pic above how close the feeder is to the reduced entrance on a nuc, and how far away it is below on a standard hive.
The biggest problem with a regular boardman is that if it leaks syrup, it will leak INTO the hive, and if your hive is tilted forward, it will build up in the feeder, kill bees, and eventually run along the reducer until it can find a way out, which is usually the entrance. There will be bees from Hawaii trying to get that syrup.

At the very least, if you MUST use an entrance feeder, drill a hole in the back of it. A small hole that will allow the syrup to drip there instead of running into your hive, making you bees sticky, and possibly killing them. Not to mention making the possibility of robbing even greater. The dripping hole in the back will still draw bees, but it will not draw them directly to the entrance, and it will also quickly alert you that there is a problem.

Jen · « **Reply #36 on:** March 02, 2014, 10:50:47 pm »

Brilliant! Send out some prototypes and lets test them out !!

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #37 on:** March 02, 2014, 11:31:55 pm »

Lazy
My entrance feeders are set up just like yours with one exception. Their made out of folded sheet metal and they lean out. Any leaks drip out the front.

I'll probably stick with my method. Any hive strong enough to make a nuc from can also spare a frame of honey/pollen.

In C.C. millers book, 50 years among the bees. He recommends feeding only your strong hives and steal the filled frames for the weak ones. This really cuts down on the robbing.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #38 on:** March 03, 2014, 08:54:01 am »

Woody;
There is NO DOUBT that the honey frames are far superior. In spring I often do not have honey frames to spare when I do early splits, so I use top feeders. The entrance feeder is the last resort when I have used up the other resources, like extra boxes to cover the jars on the top feeders.
When we roll into late summer, and have the pollen and nectar begin to dry up.. I really don't want to start feeding them back honey. I would much prefer to save it for winter prep, so at that time they will also be fed. If November rolls around and they have not been able to store enough honey, I put it back on as I wrap. The winter we just had//are still having has seen them go through everything I had and they are into the sugar. So I can easily foresee using every available method I have to keep them alive and get them building up.
Less honey will be extracted this year. If its a good year and they make lots of reserves, I can always extract late fall instead of late summer.

Jen · « **Reply #39 on:** March 03, 2014, 02:16:57 pm »

Woody- ""My entrance feeders are set up just like yours with one exception. Their made out of folded sheet metal and they lean out. Any leaks drip out the front.""

The problem I foresee of any dripping is ants. Ants make me nuts

I will probably feed thru the inner cover. My lid doesn't have a feeding hole.

Now that I think about it, should I make a feeding hole in the lid?