Author Topic: Fumagillin  (Read 18496 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline riverbee

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 8924
  • Thanked: 410 times
  • Gender: Female
  • ***Forum Sponsor***
  • Location: El Paso Twp, Wisconsin
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2015, 11:50:59 am »
pete, when did you buy it? might want to check the expiration date on it. any fumagillin i have purchased in the past goes in the freezer.  i can't honestly answer your question. it used to be a recommendation to treat in spring months added to fall treatments. my local bee supplier sent out an email sometime ago advising beeks to stop using it in spring months, i didn't ask why. i didn't ask because by then i had stopped using it.  i haven't used it probably in about 5 years or more.

camero i am a serious beekeeper, i don't own a microscope, but i will agree with this statement, and i will clarify as to why:
"for those that think they don't have fumigillin in their honey, just saying. If this got out to the general public what do you think it would do to honey sales?"

this is one reason why i do not believe in the practice of cycling brood frames up to be used in honey supers in interchangeable frames and equipment, but that's just me. i have already said it, others have different practices. 

with that said would i use it? i might, but by the time one realizes they may have a nosema problem, it might be too late to treat.  i don't know, but it's my guess. 

i would also like to make a comment, when i read Large Words, i read 'yelliing'.  just my perception. let's not 'yell' at each other. i think we can make a point without doing so. we all have different ways, methods and different beliefs. let's remember that and respect that. i am not saying that's how you meant it scott, i know you were probably expressing your frustration/opinion on the subject. 
i keep wild things in a box..........™
if you obey the rules, you miss all the fun.....katherine hepburn
Forum Sponsor

Offline tefer2

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 434
  • Thanked: 18 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Kalamazoo,MI.
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2015, 05:30:16 pm »
So, what happened to poor Lindsay? I'll bet she quit reading this thread for sure!  :o
I don't feel like we were much help to her.
Maybe, Robo got her on the right track though.

Offline LazyBkpr

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 6842
  • Thanked: 205 times
  • Gender: Male
  • www.outyard.net
    • The Outyard
  • Location: Richland Iowa
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2015, 07:15:55 pm »
Reply in anything in everything.   Big words.
Drinking RUM before noon makes you a PIRATE not an alcoholic!

*Sponsor*

Offline riverbee

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 8924
  • Thanked: 410 times
  • Gender: Female
  • ***Forum Sponsor***
  • Location: El Paso Twp, Wisconsin
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2015, 07:27:18 pm »
"So, what happened to poor Lindsay? I'll bet she quit reading this thread for sure!"

i hope not tefer!  hey lindsay!!! 
i keep wild things in a box..........™
if you obey the rules, you miss all the fun.....katherine hepburn
Forum Sponsor

Offline LindsayBrower1

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Kerhonkson NY
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2015, 07:55:17 pm »
Hey guys! I did fall of for a bit, I appologize I haven't given an update. Im struggling to keep my bees alive, Im down to 2 hives now  :'( I don;t know what is going on with them, the nosema came back negative but they have a bad case of dysentary. I've heard that unheated sugar could do this to them ( again I heard this) and that the heating process will invert the makeup of the sugar making it easier to digest for the bees. Im thinking about taking out the granulated sugar and giving them some fondant or candy board for food.
"The earth has music for those who listen"

Offline LazyBkpr

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 6842
  • Thanked: 205 times
  • Gender: Male
  • www.outyard.net
    • The Outyard
  • Location: Richland Iowa
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2015, 12:00:54 am »
dang,, thats not good..   Not sure what to tell you to try..   I have fed sugar since the mid 1970's and have never heard that it caused problems?

   I hope no one tells my bees!
Drinking RUM before noon makes you a PIRATE not an alcoholic!

*Sponsor*

Offline LindsayBrower1

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Kerhonkson NY
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2015, 07:46:07 am »
LazyBkpr well that is good news. Maybe it doesn't cause problems, I just heard it from another beek. I don't know why they have dysentary like this, they have had days of cleansing flights. Im trying to stay positive and hope that I have at least one hive to start spring with. I just got a job at the bee supply store in our area, Im considering working for a few packages... At least I have a lot of drawn out frames this year to give bees ( the clean ones anyways)
"The earth has music for those who listen"

Offline LazyBkpr

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 6842
  • Thanked: 205 times
  • Gender: Male
  • www.outyard.net
    • The Outyard
  • Location: Richland Iowa
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2015, 09:15:30 am »
Indeed.. I am hoping you dont lose any more at all.
   I thought I was going to lose a couple packages to Nosema, or dysentery..   Whatever it is thats causing them to poo all over the inside of the hive..  One of the two managed to pull through, and they are doing well at this point. The inside of the hive is a bit of a mess, but they are alive..  and they pulled through on sugar cakes. Most of their reserves were gone.
   Unfortunately, I can only give advice on my own bees and experiences, those experiences may not relate to your area at all..

   1. Packages dont do well here.
       In total, I have bought 18 packages over the years. The number of them that survived the first winter is 4. The number that survived the second winter is 0, but I have two daughter queens from packages that are alive at this point, MAYBE they will survive next winter, and maybe I will replace the queens before then to remove the worry/loss.

   2. Fumagillin B has reduced my winter loss to Nosema/Dysentery from about 12% to less than 1%
        Is it the Fumagillin that has produced these results?  I do not know, I lost a lot of hives. I started using the Fumagillin, and those losses ended, so I keep using it.

  Beekeepers who have fed fumagillin to field colonies years ago had noted significant differences in colony build up. In fact, many of them stopped using fumagillin. The colonies built up too quickly and swarm control became nearly impossible.
   http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/files/147621.pdf

   3.  Upper ventilation.
          Apparently we NEED it here, Lost two hives, nearly lost 3 others.

   4.  Sugar; 
   it has been fed to the bees for a very long time. If it was harmful, i doubt that it would have been used for very long.


Candy or bakers fondant was first used to feed bees in the 18thcentury because it was the purest form of sugar then available.
   https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadNews.cfm?id=121

   Honey actually contains the same basic sugar units as table sugar. Both contain glucose and fructose. Granulated table sugar, or sucrose, has glucose and fructose hooked together, whereas in honey, fructose and glucose remain in individual units.
   (Wiki)

   Invert sugar has the glucose and fructose broken down, and is supposedly easier for the bees to convert. Having never had any problems I dont worry about that.
   We had a terrible fall flow last year, and as most know, my bees subsisted almost entirely on sugar through the winter. The losses i had, were starvation/cold 1 Nosema like symtoms, and 2 were moisture related.  Those lost were 90% package bees in nucs and hives. 9% purchased nuc hives. 1% my fault.
   I have 25 hives and 4 nucs flying at this point, all living on sugar cakes, but its not yet mid March.


   I think if i was in your shoes, I would be bugging the bejeesus out of Rob. (Maybe he is susceptible to Bribery? Cookies? Beverages? Money?)   ;D   
    He is local, and can probably give you the best advice of anyone.
Drinking RUM before noon makes you a PIRATE not an alcoholic!

*Sponsor*

Offline LindsayBrower1

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Kerhonkson NY
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2015, 09:35:08 am »
Thanks for your input. If I go the package bee route, I plan to replace those queens using the OTS method. I don't really want to be spending $220++ a piece for nucs when I could get a couple packages, throw them onto already drawn out comb and requeen them. Also I will be putting out swarm traps early in hopes of replacing some of my loss that way. I don't know that much about Fumagillin but I need to research more about it. I just assumed it is only used for the treatment of nosema. I bug the bejesus out of Rob all the time and we work together a lot , he has been as helpful as he can be. He is too kind to accept bribery anyhow. Im kind of in a "sit and wait" situation.
"The earth has music for those who listen"

Offline tefer2

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 434
  • Thanked: 18 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Kalamazoo,MI.
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2015, 10:16:53 am »
Glad to see you checking back in Lindsay.
I've also heard that "Mountain Camp" method of feeding could cause dysentary.
No one seems to have any proof to back up their claims though.
Make yourself some Robo candy to help them until the snow melts.
When we bought pkg's, we always requeened them with local stock.



Offline hamptor

  • Regular Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Thanked: 2 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2015, 03:55:01 pm »
Lindsay,
I fed my bees this winter with the Mountain Camp method - just granulated sugar on top of a sheet of newspaper with a few holes punched in it.   I treated my bees with Fumigillin in the fall.  One hive which had Nosema last spring (and got treated in the fall) had a little bit of diarrhea/dysentery -in other words - poop trails on the front of the hive.   Not bad - just some.  So it raises the question of of whether it's the Mountain Camp method or whether there were some Nosema spores there left over that just start manifesting themselves when the weather warms up enough for them to get out the front door and then poop.  My bees liked the raw sugar - I feel like it helped them make it through the winter because they were a little light in the fall.  I would use this method again for myself.

Offline camero7

  • Regular Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: spencer, MA
Re: Fumagillin
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2015, 07:43:25 pm »
remember that nosema ceranae [accepted as the most common variety these days] doesn't generally manifest itself as dysentery.