Bees building comb on lid

[Chip Euliss]

My lids sit right on top of the hive--no inner cover, etc.  Most commercial beekeepers run them that way to reduce labor and equipment costs--bees don't seem to care.  I use a 1/2 inch rim because I like the extra space for pollen sub, etc.  I only scrape the wax out once each spring and I rarely get a plugged top because I tend to add the second boxes and supers liberally.  As odd as it seems, the wax helps the bees keep the lid tight right after I open a hive and it is WINDY in North Dakota.  I also use nails but they're only necessary early in the year right after the wax is scraped.  Never had a problem with crushing bees--wrap the lid hard to dislodge the bees and then a little smoke gets them out of the way when I put the lid back on.  I also like rough surfaces on the inside of my lids (I build them from 17 inch wide rough-cut cypress I get out of east Texas) because it encourages propolis deposition and propolis has been shown to have a positive effect on bee health.  Inner covers tend to be pretty smooth and may not be as attractive for propolis deposition but I don't know since I've never used one.  For those that do use inner covers (I assume most of you?), do they get propolized?

[CBT]

Mine don't seem to because they are smooth.

[omnimirage]

what part of Australia are you in? the country is quite large with quite a change in the climate depending on the area.

I'm in South Australia: updated my profile to reflect that. Non-tropical weather here, landscape is mostly scrub, it's rather dry.

Omni says: "I was taught to use nine frames, over ten. Something about more space lets them put more honey on each frame and makes conditions less crowded and more optimal for the bees."

Ef agrees BUT adds: ONLY IF you're working with already built frames and IF honey is coming in.  Then you can space them out evenly so that you'll have nine where there would normally be ten and they will draw out the cells to be deeper.  It's a great method to save work when extracting---it's easier to uncap deeper frames and you have fewer frames to extract, while still storing the same amount of honey.  But if you do the same spacing-out with unbuilt or partially built frames, you'll always (or almost always) find the bees building between the frames and making one big mess out of your hive.

I did not know this, and it makes so much sense. Thanks for clarifying! I looked at my hives yesterday and it appears I've made this error with almost all of my hives.

Omni, one would expect the next question in your mind to be:  "What do I do with these combs now?"

In early mid summer, I'd scrape that comb out and let the bees rob it and give them another super, then save the remaining wax.  Since it is Fall there, I'd think about removing that mat and placing the top (or whatever you call it) back on, and let them have direct access during the winter.  Add another super in spring.  HTH   

Remove the mat? Would that cause them to use the lid even more? Should I wait closer to winter before doing that? Since then, the bees have expanded about the uncoated plastic foundation a little bit, and they've also placed a lot more comb on the lid. The lid is almost full.

omni~

1. what apis said about using uncoated plastic foundation when hiving a nuc to a deep. (why they were building on the underneath side of the lid). coat the foundation.  also, feed them syrup to get the bees to draw foundation, or give them a 'boost' even if there is a flow on. early spring is best for bees to draw foundation, especially numerous frames. if there is a dearth on or limited nectar sources, you will be hard pressed to have them draw comb and/or later in the season.

I noticed this with a swarm I really captured. Fed it some honey that got stuck in a honey strainer, and in a very short duration of time, they built a lot of comb. I have a lot of honey that's not suitable for human consumption. I was thinking of diluting it with maybe 10% of water (I'm receiving conflicting information on how much water is ideal), then putting it in a sandwhich bag with some holes pierced in it, and placing it on top of the lids of all the new swarms I'll be capturing in the spring.

[iddee]

Omni, never have more than 10 MM of space in a hive. Between tops of frames and bottom of upper frames, or between lid and top of upper frames. Between 10 and 20 mm, they build burr comb. More than 20 mm, they build honey comb or drone comb. Whether you remove the mat or keep it, be sure the mat or frames are within 10 mm of the lid.