Author Topic: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check  (Read 14361 times)

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Offline blueblood

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Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« on: March 07, 2014, 09:11:12 pm »
Temperature rose to 55 today here in Central Indiana.  I wanted to get out earlier this year to recover any dead outs to minimize moth/mice damage and to bring in any full frames of honey.  I went into 2013/14 winter with 13 Langs and 2 top bar hives.  I picked up two bee trees along the way.  6 of the Langs and both tbh's survived.  The first bee tree in the yard did not make it.  However, there is hope for the newest bee tree near my house (bees still in there and I gave them some sugar and pollen).  My other goal was place some sugar and pollen patties on the top of the frame/top bars and call it an evening.  I took me 2 hours just to open the lids, peek in, shine my flashlight down through the frames, apply sugar/patties and pick up the dead outs.  I can imagine how long it would take a keep with 25, 50 or more!  I would have had to split my work up in a few days if I did full blown inspections.

So, my 3rd year as a keep.  And, I have made some observations that you, more experienced keeps will recognize and maybe some things you will constructively criticize my conclusions/theories.  So here it goes:

1.   It does pay to stop taking the honey from the bees earlier than later in the proceeding season to aid them in winter stores.
2.   40-60% colony loss is a real possibility (it's sad to see all the empty equipment in the bed of my truck)
3.   Experienced keeps know what their talking about when they recommend starting out with fewer hives the first year or two
4.   Bees can and will die regardless of having plenty of stores for any one of a myriad of foes (cold, mites, nosema, etc.)
5.   Mouse guards are not just a suggestion but a real warning for a real threat (one lang and both tbh's had nests in them)
6.   Deeps are really heavy when they are 80% + full of honey!
7.   Bees can survive a harsh winter (records broke) like we had in a top bar hive (My tbh bees survived with 10 top bars and mouse invaders)
8.   When you crack the lid open to take a quick peak for life, I noted all the following behaviors on my survivor hives:
       A. guard bees fly out in their usual numbers to greet you
       B. I observe fanning (I was using a smoker today)
       C. there are several frames covered with bees from top to bottom
 9.  If you are going to have more than 10 hives you had better have room to store the dry honey supers and all the dead-out wooden-ware
10. I didn't want to leave 9, so number 10 is: all the smells of the yard, hives, honey, smoker make me happy!

*I do have a straight up questions about the frames full of honey.  I would love to take 3 of the deep frames and extract for my personal use.  We only have 2 lbs left to get us through until first harvest.  Is this honey just as good as it would have been if consumed last summer?  That sounds like a dumb question to me since honey never goes bad but just curious.  Remember, I don't treat my hives so nothing is in the deeps but golden goodness.  I plan of freezing the rest to feed back to my hives or splits.  Right now, I have them in a tube with a lid snapped tight in my cool workshop.  I tested a small sample of a capped cell and checked it against my refractometer with a result of 18.5% moisture.

All in all, I feel pretty good about today's look-see.  I will replenish my yard and more with splits, swarms and cut-outs this spring.  I am all the wiser but still sooooo much more to learn.  Here are some photos and a video of this evening in the yard.





























Offline Perry

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2014, 09:32:29 pm »
Hey Dave:
I don't see anything on your top 10 list that I would disagree with, it pretty much sums things up nicely. You can do everything "right" and sometimes still end up with results that can be disappointing. But if you think about it, isn't that what keeps us interested? If it was easy, wouldn't everyone do it?
Hats off to you for a good post and showing it like it is.  :thread:
"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor."      
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2014, 09:47:58 pm »
Well said Blue! Good post.
   "I'd not count the honey out quite yet, depends on if were going to get much more cold or not.. but when the time comes to put the feeders on, definitely pull the honey and extract!
   I like mine to be about 17 - 17.5% to bottle. I have a room with a dehumidifier in it and fans..I THINK it has to be above 20% before you have to worry about it starting to ferment.. but better let someone more knowledgeable answer that for sure.
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Offline Perry

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2014, 09:52:35 pm »
I think 18% and less is OK, but I have also heard 17.6%.
"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor."      
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Offline Woody Roberts

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2014, 10:44:03 pm »
I wouldent hesitate to eat the honey you pulled.

I also agree with everything you said.

Sorry for your losses but as long as you have bees you can build back fast. It's the equipment that keeps me in check.

From one to a hundred and from a hundred to one.

Offline blueblood

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2014, 10:56:23 pm »
Thanks friends.  I forgot to include a photo of the honey frames and the frame a mouse damaged.  The photos don't do the frames justice.  The white cappings are beautiful as usual and then there is the section of darker cappings which I believe are referred to as "we cappings"?  Or, maybe the cappings were soiled from high traffic.  Here they are:







Offline mdunc

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2014, 11:18:35 pm »
Everyone down this way has had severe losses this winter. Dad went to Henderson last weekend for the annual bee school they have each year at the extension office (I think you attended this last year Blueblood) & he said everyone was talking about their losses this year. I've been very lucky & only lost 1 out of 10. Dad has lost 10 out 20. This year we put patties on the hives & every chance we had on a warm day would check them & reload with the patties as needed. I don't see how you northern folks do it.

Offline DLMKA

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2014, 06:57:06 am »
Not sure I agree with #3. I've done well my first two winters with way more than 2 hives. I think I've learned WAY more with 21 colonies that I ever would have with 2 or 3.

Did it appear your Langstroth hives starved or couldn't reach stores or something more sinister going on in there.

Offline apisbees

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2014, 07:05:44 am »
Is some of the honey in the combs granulated? If it has the liquid honey will show a higher moisture reading. Honey is composed of different sugars and not all of them granulate so what happens is that some of the sugars granulate that release their excess moisture during crystallization. This extra moisture is attracted to the other sugars that do not granulate causing their moisture content to increase.
You may have to warm the frames to dissolve the crystals to get the honey to extract.
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Offline blueblood

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2014, 07:06:59 am »
Morning DLM, I should have put a disclaimer on #3...the few adventurous folks such as you and me had to have several hives the first years.  We couldn't help it, ha!  I mean to say, for brand new keeps, they need to realize what they are setting themselves up for.  It takes quality time work several hives.  And, winter losses are not related to #3.  I have accepted that I will probably lose 50% every winter.  I don't treat which may or may not influence this.  As for what might have been going on there with the dead-outs, they had plenty of stores.  Only a couple had low numbers.  It could have been mites for all I know.

Offline DLMKA

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2014, 09:26:14 am »
I have accepted that I will probably lose 50% every winter.  I don't treat which may or may not influence this. 

I don't treat and as of this week have lost <25% (5 of 21 which includes two nucs from late cutouts). Bee yard selection seems to have a role. I have 3 yards, lost 100% in the yard surrounded by fields with no windbreak. Every other yard is isolated by >200yds from fields and more importantly, I think, have a good windbreak on the north and west side. Nucs were sheltered under an open front shed with south facing opening.

Offline blueblood

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2014, 09:55:34 am »
I think your right Dm.  I saw a thread on one of these forums lately about different results in different yards only one mile apart.  Only 25% is great!  Do you re-queen every fall in your hives by chance?  I would really love to say that my tbh's made it because they built the comb as they saw fit.  I guess if my tbh's continue to survive winters and have low pest issues, then I might comfortably say there is merit in allowing them to build their own comb.

Offline lazy shooter

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2014, 10:08:46 am »
Blue:

It's a shame that you lost over 50% of your Langs, but I am delighted to read that your two TB hives survived your harsh winter.  That tells me that TB hives will be in my future.  I would like to have a TBH at both of my residences, so that I could crush and strain a bit of honey from time to time without cranking up the extractor.

Hooray for you not treating your hives.  I too, am a treatment free beekeeper.  It is my hope that you remain treatment free, and I think you will see improvement as time passes. 

Thanks again for a very detailed report.

Lazy 

Offline blueblood

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2014, 10:32:52 am »
Thanks Lazy! Yes, it was the most harsh winter we have had in year so it was a good year to test the tbh.  The comb is easy to change out.  Just bust it off and let them start over.  Tbh is fun/low stress to work and to educate others that visit your yard.  The comb honey is most excellent, yum yum.  I don't mind exploring natural treatments, such as essential oils but I simply don't want to put chemicals in the hive.

Offline Finally Home

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2014, 11:00:02 am »
Sorry for your loss of hives but glad it's been a learning experience and thanks for sharing what you've learned. 

Offline Slowmodem

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2014, 03:20:16 pm »
Dave,

Sorry about your losses.  Lots of folks at our association lost over half.  I lost 1 out of 3.

What surprised me was that mice got into your top bar hives.  People say that if you go to a top entrance on your lang hives, the mice won't get in.  I would have thought this applied to a top bar, too, since it's up off the ground.
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Offline blueblood

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2014, 04:52:25 pm »
The hole on the tbh was pretty big.  I actually wasn't surprised.  I have found three mice in the yellow tbh this winter, 2 died promptly and the third escaped my foot.  I see 50% loss quite often among other keepers.  I really wish it wasn't that way.  I suppose we missed the good ole days in the 70s.

Offline pistolpete

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2014, 06:06:56 pm »
looking at those dark areas in your pulled frames, looks to me like that could be mostly dark pollen and not worth the trouble extracting.    Usually they'll pack the cells 3/4 full of pollen and then seal it with a bit of honey.
My advice: worth price charged :)

Offline DonMcJr

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2014, 09:31:50 pm »
Wow no Snow?  we still have more than a foot on the ground!

Bummer on the loses I think I lost 2 of my 4...haven't been able to look yet...
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Offline blueblood

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Re: Blueblood's After Winter First Hive Check
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2014, 08:03:34 pm »
looking at those dark areas in your pulled frames, looks to me like that could be mostly dark pollen and not worth the trouble extracting.    Usually they'll pack the cells 3/4 full of pollen and then seal it with a bit of honey.

Pete, I took some photos of the capped honey so you could get a closer looks.  Some of the photos I took with the sun shining through from the other side of the frame.  Actually, some would make good screen savers!  Anyway, I opened some of the cells to see if there was any pollen and I didn't exactly see any.  Anybody else thinking there would be pollen in those cells which I thought were just "wet cappings?"  I have have about 36 pounds total including the frames.  That would be some tasty honey to get me through until June/July  :)