Neonics and winter losses.

[Perry]

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/09/honeybees-dying-insecticide-harvard-study

[LazyBkpr]

   Looking at the differences neonics have made in comparison to the older sprayed insecticides I still have to believe they are a step ahead in some aspects. While making up for the benefits with even more disturbing issues slowly being revealed as time passes. I actually have a greater concern with the 2,4-D that is still commonly used on just about every field nearby. The horror stories that have surfaced make dealing with 2,4-D a little more difficult than rotating out comb often. I will have 2,4-D being applied within inches of 20+ hives..  the only hope is that the farmers will be notifying me when they spray it so I can screen the hives for half a day.

[blueblood]

When are we going to finally use alternative products for our fields?  Thanks for the latest article on this Perry.

[camero7]

The previous study by these guys was totally debunked as a terrible and not peer reviewed paper. This one is no better. The dosage of the neonics was close to LD50. I'm surprised that the bees lived as long as they did. When someone has field relevant dosages of neonics and can replicate these findings I'll start to worry. Also, I'm not sure the main author of this paper knows anything about bees. This "study" was done about 10 miles from me and about 5 miles from my main yard. I personally know the other 2 men on this study. I'm surprised they would put their names on this paper. Take away: If you feed bees poison they will die. Read Randy Oliver's analysis of the first paper to understand why it's so poor. This paper is just more of the same.

The millions of hives that have worked neonic canola in Canada and the Australian results should tell beekeepers that neonics are not the main problem. And no one who has lived through them wants to go back to the organophosphates.

[blueblood]

I didn't realize it went under the complete name of imidacloprid neonicotinoid.  I have read articles using one or the other exclusively so often I thought they were independent of the other.  I didn't realize it was a derivative of nicotine.  I am not one to jump on the band wagon either Camero but I admit I drop my guard with this issue sometimes.   You are right, their method was skewed with those dosages.  You know, my hives have bean and corn fields in all directions where the fields are sprayed.  To date, 3 years of keeping, I have not had any mass exodus or deaths.  Oliver makes note of others like me.  I tell ya, I have to copy and paste his articles to Word because his yellow background kills my eyes!  And, I looked organosphosphages up, wow, that is some bad crap.  But, it looks like they are still using it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organophosphate

An excerpt from Oliver's News and Blog page:

Dec 2, 2013 If you have interest in the recent petitions to ban the neonics, I recommend reading a letter to the respected journal Nature by a British bee researcher, Lynn Dicks, in which she points out the problems with hurried setting of policy based upon political pressure rather than upon careful scientific evaluation of the evidence  http://www.nature.com/news/bees-lies-and-evidence-based-policy-1.12443

Such a careful evaluation of all evidence is what I’m all about, even if that is unpopular with those who don’t want to be confused by the facts.  I currently feel that the problem with planting dust from corn seeding has finally reached the point where the manufacturers either have to take responsibility for compensating beekeepers who suffer losses due to the application of their products, or EPA and PMRA need to restrict the use of neonic seed treatments to only planters that pass dust emission certification.  However, I feel that to date there is not enough evidence to call for a complete ban on the neonics–there are simply too many beekeepers successfully keeping healthy hives in areas of seed-treated crops.  Clearly this is a hot issue, and the neonics, along with all pesticides need to be closely watched and regulated.  It appears to me that our regulatory agencies are doing a good job at this, even if progress seems to be excruciatingly slow.

[Ray]

Are Neonics better than Organophosphates? Of Course!
Are there people out there feeding on irrational fears? Of Course!

The question is: Will the Poison Manufacturers Voluntarily produce a better product or is the outside pressure necessary?

[LazyBkpr]

  I have watched my field planted the last two years, I have watched multiple other fields planted. I have hauled seed to the planters and filled the boxes..  Unless the "plume" of coating dust is not visible to the naked eye while the planter is in operation, I have never seen it. I DO see the dust in the bag, and in the planter boxes, but it is usually heavy enough that it does not float about in the air.
   This year the ground had JUST enough moisture that there was not even a plume of "dirt" dust, so I would think any plume from the seed coating would have been much more visible.
   To me it comes down to this..  Before the coatings farmers sprayed, and there were a lot of deaths of bees involved immediately, and in the following weeks. After the coated seeds, those deaths stopped happening..   Combining the chemicals from the coated seeds, 2,4-D and all of the other herbicides, fungicides and insecticides, as well as mitacides... may well make up the difference in an over time decline, as opposed to an instant one..  but at least now,  "I"   have the opportunity to get some of those older combs out of the hives to reduce the exposure over time.
   I am not defending anything, just posting my point of view as I have seen it. My point of view on this issue is constantly changing. I am too close to both worlds, both sides of this story.

[camero7]

Bottom line: control varroa and virus issues and the neonics, fungicides and other pesticides become less of a problem. I lost lots of hives this winter. varroa was controlled but I think the virus issues were a major problem.

[Perry]

Bottom line: control varroa and virus issues and the neonics, fungicides and other pesticides become less of a problem. I lost lots of hives this winter. varroa was controlled but I think the virus issues were a major problem.

You may have something there. There were some beekeepers up here that had abnormal losses, and from what I know of these folks, it's almost impossible to imagine they lost them to varroa, they usually have too good a handle on that for it to be the problem.

[camero7]

I'm going to send some bees to Dave Wick this summer to have them tested for virus. If I have a problem I'm going to try HBH drench. Some have reported success with that. I pulled about 300 drone brood and didn't find one mite last week, so I'm pretty confident that varroa is not my problem.