Latest grafting results.....

[Lburou]

I'm placing grafts over a queenright colony with these results:
15 of 16 took this time.



The picture above shows the cell cups after 48 hours


The one above shows the cell cups the fifth day after grafting.

Can anyone comment on the extra webbing around the cells?  One of the cells is attached to the comb.  Going to be a little extra work to place these cells.

I'm mentoring a bright new beekeeper.  I grafted the top row and he grafted the bottom row of cells.  He has bragging rights this time, eh Chip?   

[Intheswamp]

Those are some nice looking cells, Lburou.  I've read where adding a frame or two of foundation will give those wax builders something to do other than bridge between cells...just what I read, though, no actual experience at it. 

Which grafting tool are you using?  Are you doing a cloake type of cell building or...  I need to go back and refresh my self on your grafting journey.

Ed

[Lburou]

Ed, thanks for responding! 

I'm using the Ben Hardin method of queen rearing over a queenright colony.  You can see the frame arrangement of the second super in the first picture above.  I'm using a frame feeder in lieu of a dummy board and a dummy board (frame) on the other side of the eight frame super (close, but not exactly the way the Cushman site depicts). 

Doing this over a queen right colony makes it easy.  I've read with interest Oldtimer's report that this method works well during a honey flow and less well before and after. 

I'm experimenting with grafting tools Ed.  The biggest single improvement is to get plastic foundation with deep cell impressions so you can scrape down to the foundation with a hive tool for easy access to the larva.  Rite Cell is deep enough.  We used the German tool, Chinese tool and one I made from a free, worn out dental hygienist's tooth cleaning pic (I reworked the bends and angles).  The Chinese tool seems to offer the most for a beginner, but I may have one of those that does not work so well.  I'm training it. 

I'm still hoping someone will jump in here with information about the extra webbing shown in the pics taken five days after grafting.  Anyone?

[Intheswamp]

Lee, the joke may be on me.  I was kidding when I commented on your cells....I see absolutely *no* pictures in your post.   Something is wrong, they're simply not showing up.   

I've been looking hard at using a queenright colony for my cells and leaning towards a semi-cloake type of setup to build the cells.  I will be doing my queen raising after I harvest my honey which means it's will be during the summer dearth.    I intend to feed, feed, feed.  I hope to use the queens to get 2-4 nucs started to overwinter.  It's not a "do or die" but rather an experiment in "increase".   I like to tinker.

I'm toying with making some grafting tools out of paperclips as apisbees described.  I also have some of the Chinese tools ordered...10 for four or five dollars off of eBay (thanks Iddee for the tip).  Supposedly some of the Chinese tools are duds so you kind of have to pick through them.  I also ordered a fancy $10 tool...stainless steel and all.  I got some JzBz cells and a couple of bars coming, too.  I should be set when the time comes.  I'm encouraged by your success.  Now....get the pictures fixed!!! <GRIN>

Take care,
Ed

[Intheswamp]

Btw, though I can't see it, the webbing that you are talking about....is this like bridge comb between the neighboring frame or   In reading in Laidlaw's "Queen Rearing" it points out that using Jay Smith's cut comb strip promotes comb filling in between the queen cells but the Doolittle grafting method makes clean cells with little to no comb built between the cells.  I have no idea if this could possibly be related to what you are having or not, but thought I'd mention it.

Ed

ETA... I think the reason that Smith's method gets the comb between the cells is because of the comb that is already between the cells that are not destroyed.  Still not sure exactly sure of what you have, though.

[Papakeith]

I can't see the pictures either :(

[LazyBkpr]

If I put the cells too close together the bees start to draw comb between them, but as I cant see pics either I cant say if that is what is happening.

[LazyBkpr]

http://dino-bee.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=214&d=1401554817

The picture above shows the cell cups after 48 hours

http://dino-bee.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=219&d=1401825121
The one above shows the cell cups the fifth day after grafting.

    strange.. In the reply I can see the img tags, in the original post I cant see anything at all...   I'll remove the tags so they can be copied and pasted...  Or clicked on!

 Edit...    That brings me to a site that says I need to log in or register....

[Intheswamp]

Nope, still not working...it brings me to the vbulletin notice telling me that I need to log in...

[apisbees]

still login window 8:19pm Pacific time zone

[Intheswamp]

Ok, disregarding our photo issues here...

Ed, thanks for responding! 

I'm using the Ben Hardin method of queen rearing over a queenright colony.  You can see the frame arrangement of the second super in the first picture above.  I'm using a frame feeder in lieu of a dummy board and a dummy board (frame) on the other side of the eight frame super (close, but not exactly the way the Cushman site depicts).

So you are finding that the bees will pack themselves into the restricted area?  I've read (yelp a newbie reading again  ) that it's not the total population number of a hive that results in quality queens but rather the density of the bees in the hive and around the cells.  Seems this smaller area atop a populous colony might serve the purpose of "congesting" the bees around the cells.

 
Doing this over a queen right colony makes it easy.  I've read with interest Oldtimer's report that this method works well during a honey flow and less well before and after. 

I will have to go find Oldtimer's posting about this...I've probably already seen them but a refresher will be good.

I'm experimenting with grafting tools Ed.  The biggest single improvement is to get plastic foundation with deep cell impressions so you can scrape down to the foundation with a hive tool for easy access to the larva.  Rite Cell is deep enough. 

Hmm, I use all wax foundation with a little foundationless in the mix.  I'll just have to go easy. Maybe on my next order of bee supplies I'll throw a few sheets of Rite Cell in there.

We used the German tool, Chinese tool and one I made from a free, worn out dental hygienist's tooth cleaning pic (I reworked the bends and angles).  The Chinese tool seems to offer the most for a beginner, but I may have one of those that does not work so well.  I'm training it. 

What type of problem do you have with the Chinese tool?  I've read where people sometime *carefully* sand the tongue down to either make it thinner or smoother...can't remember which.  The key word that was mentioned was *carefully* being as if you sand too much it is ruined.  Folks have also mentioned of buying a bag of them so you have several to pick from.  Iddee gave me a tip to search eBay and I ended up buying 10 of them for around $5.  I'm also toying with making paperclip tools per a tip from Apisbees.

I'm still hoping someone will jump in here with information about the extra webbing shown in the pics taken five days after grafting.  Anyone?

I wish I could help with this, but I have no good idea other than there's some overzealous waxbuilders.

Ed

[Lburou]

Thanks ED, I appreciate your thoughts. 

Can you see this?

Or this link?

Ed, I made some more grafts today and the Chinese grafting tool was tool of choice -this time, it was a matter of teaching the flexible portion to bend the way 'I' wanted it to bend.  We primed the cells (per Iddee's advice) with honey and water and double grafted.  Expecting a good batch.

In a strong hive, there is no problem getting a dense bunch of nurse bees next to the grafting frame.  Plus, the frame feeder is one frame away from the grafting frame. You might see my frame arrangement on this pic:

Another pic of cells 48 hours after graft:



Rite Cell is the foundation to use as a donor frame for this, its the deepest cell base I know of.  You only need to scrape the width of a hive tool for a couple inches if you have the right aged larva on the frame.  HTH

lee

[Intheswamp]

The link and the pictures both show up fine in your latest post, Lee.  The question of the "webbing"...are you referring to the depth of the pock marks in the surface of the cells?  Looks like some nice fat cells that the bees were proud of and put a nice finish on. Looks like the fatter ones are on the top bar

Thanks for being persistent and getting those pictures online and for sharing your info. 

Do you use any lighting or a magnifier when grafting? 

What was the mix of honey and water?

Ed

[Yankee11]

I'm also curious in the priming of the cells.

[Lburou]

Glad to hear you can finally see the pics!!   

Ed, yes, that extra wax work is what I was asking about in the OP.  I think the extra attention is a good thing, but hadn't really read anything about it except a passing remark by Oldtimer in another grafting thread about the Ben Hardin method -Could be wrong about that.

Iddee recommended a mix of a little honey and a little water (maybe half and half).  I used the wide end of the German grafting tool to dip in the honey/water mix then touched the bottom of the cell cup, leaving a tiny dollop of moisture on the bottom.  That process seems to keep the larva moist and help get the larval/royal jelly payload off the grafting tool.

Yes, I use a magnifying lamp like this (only because a neighbor gave it to me rather than throw it in the rubbish bin).

Randy Oliver recently recommended the Carson Pro Series MagniVisor Deluxe Head-Worn LED Lighted Magnifier with 4 Different Lenses (1.5x, 2x, 2.5x, 3x) (CP-60).  You might want to check it out.....Will cost less -depth of field is important.