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Offline Zweefer

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buying Queens
« on: June 12, 2014, 09:56:04 pm »
I have to replace the queen in my hive.  she is woefully inadequate compared to her neighbor  :sad:

Keeping in mind i live in God's Country (AKA Wisconsin) is there any place you would recommend to purchase through?  I have been thinking of using B & B honey Farm out of Houston MN (about 2.5 hours from here), but am happy to get everyone's opinions and suggestions... want to order Monday, so I have until then to decide...

Thanks!
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Offline Jen

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2014, 10:07:17 pm »
I haven't ordered queen from B & B but I did order winter patties. They were very nice and got the patties to me pronto! Nice!
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2014, 10:23:17 pm »
they have quoted me a Tuesday delivery if I order by noon Monday!
Also toying with Honey Glow Farms in Owen WI (45 min away) I would probably just drive there to get them, but know nothing of them, or even if they have any available.
I just want a place that others have used and have had good experiences with, as i am a bit gun shy after my last purchase  :-X
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Offline Jen

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2014, 10:48:51 pm »
I sure don't blame you! I would go with good references for absolutely sure ~
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Offline Beeboy

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2014, 10:50:38 pm »
I don't know anything about either one, but my opinion is that local is almost always better. Surely a local keep around there could you about the local supplier there.
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2014, 11:19:57 pm »
owen has Aurea Italians.   not familiar with this specific kind?
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Offline riverbee

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2014, 11:20:37 pm »
b and b is a great supplier, and great customer service.  i have not ordered their vsh queens.  long ago, they carried midnite and starline bees, was always happy.  they are my main supplier for equipment and everything else, can't say enough about them.

anyway, my suggestion, go with carni queens, i would highly recommend:

adam ebert of ebert honey farms in iowa..... 
Ebert Honey Queens

or tim arheit of honey run apiaries:

Honey Run Apiaries NWC Queens

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Offline Zweefer

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2014, 11:53:01 pm »
Order has been placed with Ebert.
I'll keep you posted.

I am now getting crazy ideas in my head however.  C:-)
This queen is laying (although not very well)... would it be possible to take a frame from the hive and put her in a nuc to see if I can get anything to happen there?  Or possibly create a new queen to keep as a backup or keep the spotty one and  just run a 5 frame nuc to supplement the other two hives?  As I'll have the new queen, I would have the luxury of waiting for a new queen to be raised in the nuc...


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Offline Jen

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2014, 12:00:42 am »
I did that Zweef, at the end of my swarming episode. I made my first nuc with one of the swarmy queens. I introduced a new queen but she was assassinated, found her on the bottom of the hive two weeks later :(  But by golly swarmy queen has outdone herself and so far no more swarms from her. I would give it a try for sure, I also like that you are trying to give her more time.

I bought 3 queens, one was assassinated, and the other two did real well, except it took one of them about 3-4 weeks to get it going, and the bees and her had to straighten out a bunch of comb as well. Patience
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Offline riverbee

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2014, 01:13:52 am »
zweef, that queen will never do well no matter what you do.....

given your circumstances, i would requeen with ebert's queen and let that hive take off.  you don't want the genetics from the prior queen in a nuc if the bees were to raise their own queen.....your chances of failure are great.  hard to explain, but what you have.... she is a substandard queen......not the genetics you would want for the bees to make their own queen out of in a nucleus hive.  hope this makes some sense......?
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Offline pistolpete

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2014, 02:26:25 am »
I have to agree with Riverbee.  Just pinch the under performing queen.  If you're really set on making up a Nuc, order 2 queens and make a Nuc from your stronger hive.   I'd recommend two frames of bees and brood as the minimum Nuc size.  Anything less and they have a hard time regulating the temperature in the hive.   Having said that, if you want to have some honey to harvest, you want to leave all the bees in the hive.  They have a lot of work to do, pulling all that new comb.
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Offline apisbees

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2014, 04:06:59 am »
Great advice from Pete and River. I didn't like the looks of her brood pattern in pictures that you posted 2 weeks ago and would have looked at replacing her then. the hives that you have are still only nucs themselves and are trying to build into full colonies. Pull nucs and trying to raise queens will set back the hives even more, quite possibly compromising their ability to be in the best shape to get through and survive the winter.
Once the new queen is in the hive and laying you may want, / need, to look at moving some brood to equalize the hives. Add needed support to the hive with the inferior queen. Depends what the hive looks like in bee population. if their is only a cluster size of bees to cover 5 frames the new introduced queen will be restricted to laying in only 3 frames when she is introduced,
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2014, 07:21:32 am »
This is why I love you all.  She will be pinched.
Apis - ill post some photos after she is set up and go from recommendations after that.  My second hive will have a frame they can spare - that queen is going gangbusters and laying across 7-8 frames right now.
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Offline tefer2

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2014, 08:41:05 am »
You can get a good queen from a bad supplier and a bad queen from a great supplier.
That's a risk you take when buying bees.
Our bee season in the north is very short.
All my queens need to have the gas peddle down to the floor board from the get go.
Not a lot of time to wait out a slow starter.
Got a whole jar full of non performers here on other side of lake.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2014, 11:31:52 am »
"Our bee season in the north is very short.
All my queens need to have the gas peddle down to the floor board from the get go."

............ :agree:

well said!
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Offline apisbees

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2014, 01:10:18 pm »
Quote from: Zweefer on June 13, 2014, 07:21:32 am
This is why I love you all.  She will be pinched.
Apis - ill post some photos after she is set up and go from recommendations after that.  My second hive will have a frame they can spare - that queen is going gangbusters and laying across 7-8 frames right now.
That is what I thought, and the hive with the poor queen is lagging further behind each day. I think they could realty benefit from a frame of capped brood. And at the rate the good hive is expanding it will not set it back noticeably.
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2014, 01:42:30 pm »
So you think I should transfer now instead of after the switch? Sorry If I misunderstood...
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Offline DLMKA

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2014, 03:01:02 pm »
I've had underperformers that I pinched the queen and caged the queen from a good, strong hive and let them raise a new one. If you do this on a nectar flow the hive building a new queen has a lot of freed up nurse bees that become foragers sooner and put on LOTS of honey. Look into Mel Disselkoen OTS queen rearing (www.mdasplitter.com).
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Offline apisbees

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2014, 05:37:53 pm »
You could do it  either  way. If the population is noticeably smaller the quicker this hive receives the boost in population the quicker it will be able to respond and faster it will grow with the increased population to support the new queen. I would do it at the time when I went in to make the hive queen less. You need to ensure that there are sufficient bees to cover the added frame. Once the frame of brood has emerged over the next 12 days this emerging brood will provide an additional 2 frames of bees.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: buying Queens
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2014, 07:49:05 pm »

   I have spoken with Phil and Adam Ebert in the past, and probably will again in the future. Decent people to deal with.  I have not purchased any of their queens...
    When I purchase queens, I look pretty hard for queens with resistance to Varroa.    I personally see no point in proliferating queens that need to be treated for mites to survive..   I do still treat, but I also work pretty hard at selecting the most resistant stock I have to move forward with. So long as any of us buy and use standard queens from non resistant stock we are not helping ourselves, our neighbors or the feral population.
   Even the packages I buy with run of the mill Italian queens will get requeened with daughters from VSH or survivor queens. Until the demand for mite resistant queens rises FROM the beekeepers the bee breeders will keep selling non resistant bees.
   My last queens were ordered from Ridgetop Apiaries. They are doing a bang up job so far, and at four weeks in I am seeing larvae being uncapped...   I cant say how they will do in the future or through the winter yet. Mike is a good guy to deal with and will work with your schedule.   http://ridgetopapiaries.com/
   Not all VSH, Hygienic, or survivor bees will be walk away installs, meaning you can install the queen and never treat the hives again..   But, with each set of genetics we add, Each drone that mates with a feral Vrigin, or the neighbors new queen we are making a difference. If the neighbor is working toward resistance as well, it will go even faster....   
   I'm backing away from the podium now............   Yes, I am armed.. dont even think about throwing something!
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