Author Topic: Possible Moth Damage.. and or.. Disease (Read 20989 times)

Jen · « **on:** July 06, 2014, 04:57:15 pm »

Hoping to get Tec in on this one. I was going to bring this hive home, but decided to take pics first. One says it's a disease, another says that it resembles the damage of codling moth but it's not codling moth

There is only about 1 lb of bees left, the hive has been queenless for some time, no brood, eggs, nothing. There was a lot of debrie on the bottom of the box, and it had a slight musty smell to it. A lot of robbing has happened to this hive

Can anyone determine what this damage is in the wax, and what is the white dried up stuff in the combs?

Is this condition infectious to other hives?

Thank You for your time

G3farms · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2014, 05:06:51 pm »

Wax moth damage. Take a small twig and dig out the mess in the center of the combs and you will find his silky webbing and a trail of feces.

The white stuff looks like honey that has crystallized. Did not see evidence of a whole bunch of robbing since there is still lots of nectar in the combs. Robbing bees on a weak hive will empty combs within hours. Edges of the cells where capped honey was at will be torn and jagged with lots of capping debris on the bottom board. There is usually many dead bees laying on the ground at the front entrance where they were fighting.

Looks like mold on the bottom boards also, along with debris from a wax moth.

G3farms · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2014, 05:08:57 pm »

Stick those frames in the freezer for a couple of days and that will kill wax moth and SHB. They will be fine to reuse after that.

apisbees · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2014, 05:27:48 pm »

On the 10 frame down or the 2nd from the bottom on the right hand side the honey in that part of the frame looks like it was robed out. Honey cell opened and cleaned out by the bees in the colony do not open and leave the crystallized honey that way. and the cappings punctured in that manner. That is why I believe that something other than the bees in the hive have been in removing or feeding on the honey. But lets face it, that hive quite being a colony at least 2 months ago. So all the natural assumptions on bee behavior and how they should react in a given situation has long passed. But I'm with G3 freeze and reuse.

Jen · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2014, 05:38:47 pm »

So I'm going to tell my friend to let the bees die out naturally, then freeze the frames for two days. Wrap up the hive and put it away for another hive down the road some time.

Keep the comments coming ~

Thanks

pistolpete · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2014, 05:41:53 pm »

I think that the white stuff is crystallised sugar syrup from spring feeding. I don't see signs of disease, but it would be a good idea to get rid of some of the darkest comb in that lot. Picture number 6 Looks like something you'd want to cull because that old wax will be full of pesticides.

iddee · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2014, 05:52:11 pm »

OK, I will repeat what i said in the other thread.

""I would shake them out in HIS yard and tell him to freeze the equipment and store it away.""

Let the bees take up with the other colony. If it is transmittable, the other colony already has it. If it isn't, then they can use the extra bees.

GLOCK · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2014, 06:34:34 pm »

Quote from: Jen on July 06, 2014, 05:38:47 pm

So I'm going to tell my friend to let the bees die out naturally, then freeze the frames for two days. Wrap up the hive and put it away for another hive down the road some time.

Keep the comments coming ~ Thanks

Now that's a smart beekeeper keep your bee's healthy you can make more if you want more and I know you know how.

If you ask me the pic's look like bad beekeeping to me.

Jen · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2014, 07:23:13 pm »

K So Iddee... I always appreciate your imput, but if this hive has been queenless for quite some time, and these bees are approaching the end of their life, why bother shaking them into another hive.

I agree with GLOCK, this beekeeper is doing a crappy job of keeping bees. He will never get another swarm from me!

Here's another thing to concider, if we were to shake them out into a new hive, we would have to buy a queen at $75 a pop this time of year. Or, I can give him a frame of eggs and he can take his chances and hope that this hive will make a new queen ready to lay in 30 days, which is going to be into August, there won't be enough time for them to build a hive to last the winter, because the bees that are in there now will more than likely be dead.

What I would like to know, and I have asked now 4 times is - "What is it, that's in this hive that took it down?" - so far the only solid answer is G3's, wax moth. I haven't seen this kind of damage before, I would like to become a bee steward in time, so it would be good for me to know what happened in this hive.

I'll wait another couple of days for more replies and see what comes up. In the meantime, I've washed my hands of this fellow and his sick bees.

Up to this point Thanks everyone for working with me ~ I appreciate ALL of you ~

iddee · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2014, 07:46:12 pm »

I printed it twice. Now read it a third time. Shake them out on the ground and let them go where they want. Put the hive in the freezer and then storage. Why let it set there and have all the valuable comb destroyed by pests that come along?

I did not say start another hive with them. They are worthless. The drawn comb is like gold.

Bamabww · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2014, 08:31:35 pm »

Jen,

That is wax moth damage. I've seen it first hand as well. Wax moths will take over a weak hive. Possibly because this one was queenless. I scraped off the worst of the wax moth "tunnels" and froze the frames with damaged drawn comb for later. In fact some of my swarms I caught earlier this year are using it now. They have already repaired it and restocked it.

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2014, 08:39:31 pm »

Quote from: iddee on July 06, 2014, 07:46:12 pm

I printed it twice. Now read it a third time. Shake them out on the ground and let them go where they want. Put the hive in the freezer and then storage. Why let it set there and have all the valuable comb destroyed by pests that come along?

I did not say start another hive with them. They are worthless. The drawn comb is like gold.

This is the reason I'd shake them out. They can die of old age in some other hive. If you let it die out naturally moths and other critters will destroy the comb.

Drawn comb is very valuable to me!

Jen · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2014, 08:41:33 pm »

Iddee- "I printed it twice. Now read it a third time. Shake them out on the ground and let them go where they want.

Today, you have just gotten an example of what my husband has had to live with for the last 38 years. Sometimes... well most of the time... it's takes me a few questions, or more, to 'get it!' thanks for being patient Mr. Wizard

riverbee · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2014, 09:16:38 pm »

"What I would like to know, and I have asked now 4 times is - "What is it, that's in this hive that took it down?" - so far the only solid answer is G3's, wax moth. I haven't seen this kind of damage before, I would like to become a bee steward in time, so it would be good for me to know what happened in this hive."

can't add much more to what has already been said, except:
1. you are already a bee steward jen
2. you posted these pics for yourself and others to learn
3. frames and hive of a beehaver not a beekeeper
4. what and why?
a. see # 3 in the first place
b. hard to say what and why, but usually queenless, the bees dwindle away and cannot defend the hive against pest invasion, or robbers.

ps. moved this thread to pests and diseases

iddee · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2014, 09:19:59 pm »

Yeah, but I bet your hubby thinks the fringe benefits are worth it.

iddee · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2014, 09:29:51 pm »

G3 and Bama, would you tell me which pic has wax moth damage?
If it were wax moths, there would be moth larva in the debris on the bottom board. I don't see a web in any of the pics.

G3farms · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2014, 09:30:37 pm »

If you let them die out naturally them all of the comb will be lost. Wax moths have already started in on the combs. Wax moths did not kill this hive, they only moved in after they were too weak to defend the hive. I have seen a wax moth fly into an extremely strong hive with thousands of bees bearding on the entrance, I can only assume that the moth never had the chance to lay any eggs or was promptly escorted out.

What caused them to die out.........You answered that question yourself.......queenless. With out a queen they only have two options unless the keep helps them out. I would ask the question of why they went queenless.......did the keep squish her, did the hive swarm and the new queen never make it, etc.

Option 1 is that they make emergency queen cells, now that does not always mean things will be fine in the future since she has to sexually mature, return from a mating flight (weather and birds can hamper this), and be of the mindset to be a laying queen.

Option 2 is to turn into a hopeless worker laying hive that is doomed.

If the keep steps into the picture then a queen (in some stage of life.....egg to proven layer) can be introduced in hopes of turning the hive around in the right direction. This is not always a sure fired cure either.

Just remember rule number one "Bees are bees and do as they please", sometimes no matter how hard we try or wish for them to do good they have other ideas.

Jen · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2014, 09:32:37 pm »

Iddee- "Yeah, but I bet your hubby thinks the fringe benefits are worth it.

D... Right Mr. Wizard! something about a wizard and sheets?

iddee · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2014, 09:34:26 pm »

How did you know? Now I understand my new nickname.

G3farms · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2014, 09:37:50 pm »

Quote from: iddee on July 06, 2014, 09:34:26 pm

How did you know? Now I understand my new nickname.

Your in the KKK???