Author Topic: Cutting Out Deep Pulled Wax To Insert Into Med Frame (Read 6436 times)

Jen · « **on:** February 24, 2015, 12:08:28 pm »

I hope I'm having a brilliant moment here

I have a surplus of stored deep frames with pulled wax. I'm going to use mostly mediums from here on out. Has anyone ever cut pulled wax from a deep and inserted into a med or shallow?

I'm thinking to cut it phat, so that inserting it into the medium would be a snug fit?

After the bees have done their job of fastening it to the edges, would it hold up in an extractor?

iddee · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2015, 12:28:50 pm »

If you insist on making that mistake, remove the bottom bar, cut three in. off the end bars and comb, and tack the bottom bar back on.

Jen · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2015, 12:40:42 pm »

Iddee- "If you insist on making that mistake

Awe Come On! You're taking away my brilliant moment PFT!

But I have to admit, it might be better solution

I mean the wax is just sitting in the shed when it could be used.

iddee · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2015, 12:48:22 pm »

Spray it with BT and use the deep boxes for swarm traps. Sell a swarm in a deep for 200.00 or more, and buy several mediums.

apisbees · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2015, 01:50:41 pm »

Just use them for the brood boxes and use the dadants for honey. I prefer 2 standards to 3 mediums for brood and when it comes to finding the queen it is hard enough chasing her around 2 supers trying to find her. Add a 3rd and it can be harder.
As Iddee said about your idea of going foundationless. Give it 3 years and try keeping bees both ways before making any rash decisions.

barry42001 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2015, 03:32:54 pm »

Confused, deep brood chambers aren't all that heavy. But the extra brood space created by 10 deep frames vs 10 medium is really significant. As for foundationless, realize thats the most popular trend for the moment. Also realize that bees building natural comb. Isn't necessarily what I am wanting. I want the vast majority of cells built to be worker cells. Not a mix of various sized cells. The bees will rework the foundation to a small degree, largely it will be worker cells. Workers are what primarily I need. The bees will build drone cells. Raise drone brood.

riverbee · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2015, 06:28:07 pm »

"I hope I'm having a brilliant moment here I have a surplus of stored deep frames with pulled wax. I'm going to use mostly mediums from here on out."

jen, i have to ask......WHY?.........you have a surplus of deep drawn frames, utilize them. if you want to go to all mediums, do it gradually. that's just my HO.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2015, 06:59:16 pm »

But the extra brood space created by 10 deep frames vs 10 medium is really significant.

it is? Somehow I think your figuring is a little off. Using small cell and gaining twenty thousand cells per hive is significant, losing a row because of the extra gap is not. there is easier communication, travel and better ventilation. which translates to better wintering in climates like ours here in the midwest.
Like letting the bees have the drones they want, it creates a more balanced hive with happier bees, that DO usually produce more than a standard configuration hive.. it could be the bees I have had in standard deeps were all sickly? wonder why that was...
The smaller frames make finding the queen a LOT easier as well as easier on my arms looking at those frames. Yes, there are more, but they are lighter and easier to handle. The wax is sturdier because of the smaller frame. You dont need to cross wire medium frames if using foundation-less. Shall I go into detail about using last years honey supers for this years new splits? Or saving frames from your supers to feed your bees through the winter if the fall flow fails? Baiting up bees through the excluder by moving a frame up? Using honey from the supers in the queen rearing boxes?

The weight of a deep brood box, and a medium brood box is several pounds different, enough different, that I have been unable to check deeps in the past, while JUST managing the mediums.. if your fit and strong deeps work fine. If you have two or three hives, deeps work fine.. When you have lifted 150 mediums in one afternoon, you will be glad they were mediums and not deeps.

I desist.. I have nothing against deeps, they work, I just dont like the hardships they have caused me in the past. I could argue deeps or mediums all day. I can come up with more reasons they are beneficial (to me) than deeps are, but the point is not the arguing. They both offer benefits and advantages, and what it really comes down to is personal preference. Using one or the other doesnt change any of the basics of keeping bees.

iddee · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2015, 07:20:51 pm »

I could counter each of your points, but I don't like to type, so I'll just do the blatant one. Apis didn't compare 2 to 3. He compared 1 to 1. A deep does have 150% the brood area as a medium. Small cell is available for both, so that doesn't figure in the equation.

PS. If I handled 150 brood boxes of any size in one day, I would change my way of beekeeping. A box of brood weighs a lot less than a box of honey, regardless of size.

Gypsi · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2015, 09:42:38 pm »

Foundationless is easy to cut comb down and move it to medium, but I really like the saw off the bottom of the side bars and put the bottom back on trick. You can use rubberbands to hang comb in a frame but it is never as secure as what the bees do, and bees can be lazy about attaching.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2015, 10:31:05 pm »

Right, one box of medium is less than one box of deeps, but three boxes of mediums is the same, actually slightly taller than two deeps.

but as I said, everyone likes something different, like selecting a political party or religion, sometimes its not the common sense that guides it, so you'll have to forgive me for liking mediums!

Gypsi · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2015, 10:42:15 pm »

I have stacks of unusued medium boxes, somehow I find my brood boxes always end up deep. However I don't have as large a supply of deeps so I am going to TRY to make myself switch to mediums

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2015, 11:42:10 pm »

Back to the OP... Drinking my rum and coke, and staring out at the snow thinking about it.. I think Mrs. Jen needs to keep bees like Mrs. Jen wants to keep bees, be it deeps or mediums.. but having said that.. i am going to digress and agree. Leave them be. let them do their thing, put a super on. GET some honey this year, because it sounds like it may be a perfect year for it.

riverbee · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2015, 12:02:35 am »

this thread is not about an 'argument' or discussion of mediums vs deeps.......

this thread is about a question jen asked, this thread is about jen's decision and questioning going to all mediums and cutting deep frames to fit into the medium frames.....right?
no different than one of us deciding we are going to use all deeps and cut and paste medium frames into deep frames? no different?
and a newer beek at that?
if anyone wants to use mediums or deeps or foundationless, great! but if you have deep frames and want to switch to all medium boxes and medium frames, i wouldn't exactly want to be cutting and pasting all my deep frames into medium frames all at once. not sure that's what jen meant?

how many years did it take for each of us to figure out what we wanted to keep bees in, deeps, mediums, 10 frame, 8 frames, etc?
how many of us have cut and pasted deep frames to medium frames to be utilized in medium boxes? i haven't and i can't answer jen's question.
let's not have a discussion over deeps vs mediums, let's answer jen's original question.
i can't answer her question, because i have never cut comb from deeps and pasted them in medium frames to be used in medium boxes.

to some other comments.....
"Using small cell and gaining twenty thousand cells per hive is significant, losing a row because of the extra gap is not. there is easier communication, travel and better ventilation. which translates to better wintering in climates like ours here in the midwest."

i don't practice small cell foundation. i don't think there is any benefit. MYHO.
i use deeps, and my deep brood boxes consist of 9 frames rather than 10, beeswax and waxed plastic foundation. if i read this right, not sure small cell contributes to easier communications, travel and better ventilation or better wintering. ?

"Like letting the bees have the drones they want, it creates a more balanced hive with happier bees, that DO usually produce more than a standard configuration hive.. it could be the bees I have had in standard deeps were all sickly? wonder why that was...

bees build drone comb as they wish irregardless of hive configuration.
scott, are you saying it's more balanced and more productive if we kept all medium boxes? i don't think the bees care what box configuration they are in; and my bees aren't more 'sickly' by keeping them in deeps.

LogicalBee · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2015, 12:25:59 am »

Jen, doing it the way iddee suggested in post #2 is the easiest. You don’t have to worry about the comb falling out of a medium frame, since it is already attached on 3 sides in iddee’s approach.

I have done this before with a table saw, but it’s a bit messy. If I was going to do it again, I might try an oscillating tool to cut the end bars. They're a little safer than a table saw.

I don’t have the bosch tool; mine is a lot cost one, but it works great.

I started out with deeps, listened to some ‘experts’ and switched to mediums and finally discovered the hard way (time and money) that larger brood combs work better for me. The big combs are great for brood if you never have to pick them up. The point of the story is, you might want to save a few of your deeps from the table saw just in case you decide later to switch back to deeps, or just use the deeps in a single brood box, or experiment with a long hive using the deeps. Switching back happens sometimes.

iddee · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2015, 07:28:02 am »

""how many years did it take for each of us to figure out what we wanted to keep bees in, deeps, mediums, 10 frame, 8 frames, etc?""

For me, about as long as it took to find a box of frames when I needed one, no matter the size. I never read a law saying all boxes had to be uniform size. If a hive needs a box, I put on the one I have. If I find a swarm, it goes in the first box I find. I do prefer deeps for brood and medium for honey, but will not go out of my way to have that, nor any other particular setup. IMHO, the difference is not worth 2 minutes extra effort.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2015, 10:03:18 am »

scott, are you saying it's more balanced and more productive if we kept all medium boxes? i don't think the bees care what box configuration they are in; and my bees aren't more 'sickly' by keeping them in deeps.

VERY well said Mrs. River, and that is exactly what I wanted to make understood. My arguments were just pointing out, that everyone can argue their method. Because YOU like this, and HE likes that, and SHE likes something else, doesn't make THAT way the way it should be done. My arguments were my point of view, as opposed to others points of view for their way of keeping bees. I have some strong arguments against 9 frames in a brood box, and wouldnt even consider that, but you like it, and it works very well for you, so any arguments I may pose are moot and pointless.
In my own crooked way, I wanted everyone to see that NONE of us are right, and we are ALL right!

Mrs. Jen asked about switching out her boxes/frames. Knowing she has done a cut out, i think she could easily do it, rubber band cut down deep combs into her medium frames, and, from there people started arguing with her about what SHE wanted to do. My arguments were made with good intentions and a smile, I know that is hard to see when reading a typed post. Even though I also recommended in the end, staying with what she has.

Quote from: iddee on February 24, 2015, 07:20:51 pm

Apis didn't compare 2 to 3. He compared 1 to 1. A deep does have 150% the brood area as a medium.

+

"But the extra brood space created by 10 deep frames vs 10 medium is really significant."

I understand that, and its an unfair comparison so I argued differently. To argue fairly he would have had to argue 1 deep to 1.5 medium frames. As stated, the statement is correct, but also misleading.

Three medium boxes are 5/8 of an inch taller than two deeps. The volumes in the frames of full hives are still comparable.
The approximate number of cells in a double deep = 140000
The approximate number of cells in a tripple medium hive = 138600
(all numbers are approximate and may vary hive to hive)
There are "approximately" 1400 less cells in a medium tripple hive than there are in a Deep double hive, so, yes he is still right, but that number is much less significant.

riverbee · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2015, 10:40:39 am »

"In my own crooked way, I wanted everyone to see that NONE of us are right, and we are ALL right!"

............

iddee · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2015, 11:53:52 am »

The right way = wrong
The wrong way = wrong
Your way = wrong
My way = wrong
The bee's way = RIGHT

:'(

kebee · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2015, 12:45:21 pm »

Jen if that is the setup you are going to have with the bees than by all means do it, for extractor I would put a cross wire in.

Ken

Author Topic: Cutting Out Deep Pulled Wax To Insert Into Med Frame (Read 6436 times)

Gypsi

Gypsi