More "news"

[Perry]

Some of the quotes in this article are hard to believe.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/bee-killing-pesticides-the-fight-ramps-up-1.3075620

[Ray]

Thanks for the article, Perry. IMO is seems fairly even-handed, unlike the sensationalized garbage printed in the States. IMO we won't get a better product than Neonics being complacent. 

[Jen]

Agreed that neonics is not the only problem, but it's definately part of the bigger problem. Riverbee put together a comprehensive collection of information on corn syrups. Can't remember which corn syrup is the safer to use for commercial beeks. But I strongly believe that the lesser quality, or more refined corn syrups are killing the gut of the bees. Mix that feeding recipe with neonics and all the other chemicals the bees have to deal with... what do you get? dead bees... and dead humans 

[Zweefer]

And now, monkey see...
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0OD1P620150528?irpc=932

[LazyBkpr]

  I am still waiting to see the comprehensive PROOF about Neonics..   Research that passes the grade and is not so easily torn apart...
  The best research I have seen shows that bees start to have problems with Neonics between 20 and 50 PPM (Parts per Million)   Unfortunately, most research that passes the grade only shows that bees have to deal with around 5 PPM under normal conditions, and at that level, the bees seem to show an increase in learning, as opposed to a decrease...   at those levels they are more than capable of dealing with the neonics, much like a human deals with Nicotine..  there is enough nicotine in a pack of cigarettes to kill an average person, but it doesnt? I know, smoking isnt good for people and Nicotine cant be good for bees either...
   Perhaps....  research will eventually lead to proof that neonics are big time bad.. I still stand by them until then, and say they are not as bad as 20 instantly dead hives from spraying.... which is what we dealt with before neonics arrived....
   Why wasnt that in the news?   Probably because we didnt have internet back then, we just split the remaining hives to replace losses, as the spraying was usually done in the spring....

[Zweefer]

 

[Ray]

I disagree (partially) LazyBkpr.
IMO: "under normal conditions" the term should have been 'under strict study conditions'. I admit I haven't read ANY of the studies. IMO, you can't replicate the idiosyncrasy of the American Farmer in any kind of a study. Then there is the Honey Bee of which we know so little anyway.

IMO, Neonics are probably the best pesticides available NOW. Complacency about Neonics will not force the industry to produce a better product.

[LazyBkpr]

I dont think we disagree Ray.  Complacency is not what we need. I love Neonics, not because they are GOOD, but because they are less bad.   Like voting for a president.. you choose the lesser evil to vote for.

   We have chosen to go down the path of chemicals, rather than develop crops that are resistant and can live in harmony with the pests that live off of them..   Sound familiar?  Like honey bees and Varroa.. rather than proliferating resistant bees, we started dumping chems into the hives..   In both cases, the chems need to go away.  Companies spend millions on developing corn and beans that are round up resistant, so that they can be grown in harmony with that herbicide.. if they had instead, worked on developing corn and beans that resisted the corn borer, silk worm, etc, etc...   we wouldnt need insecticides.  But, there is no MONEY in selling insecticides that are not needed.   

   I have been told, in a no nonsense manner that MONEY is not the driving factor for everything the big companies do...
   If there was no money in it, they (Monsanto, Bayer, Etc) would not be involved.

[lazy shooter]

The first thing I want to do, is qualify my opinion.  I am not well versed in bio sciences.  Being an engineer, I am a physical science person.  My technical writing course in college and my life experiences have taught me that good technical writing allows a high school graduate to understand the material.  The most brilliant man I was ever associated with insisted that I write about nuclear geophysical well logging so that the average high school senior could read and comprehend what was written.

Everything I read about neonictinoids is so filled with bio jargon that I am soon lost.  The writing I have seen is all done by would-be world class science folks that love to read their own writings.  I have not found an article that describes how nicotinoids kills bees and how it is ingested into bees from the seeds buried in the ground.  If anyone has seen such an article, please direct me to it.  I want to read something in "plain speak."  Tell it to me like Tec speaks.  Ted talks of bees in highly scientific terms but stays away from all long Latin and Greek words that stymie most of us.  When Tec quits speaking you know what he said.  That's what I want the neonics person to do for me.

[tecumseh]

it seems lazy shooter and I are in the same boat.  lucky for me my phd wife is around to explain to me what all that bio jargon means so I effectively have a walking dictionary to guide me in a subject with terms that I am not savey.

the good news is the economics of neo nics is now working directly against itself.  basically there is no real economic advantage when it comes to the decision either to use or not use neo nics.  same goes for gmo.  this basically means the folks that produce this stuff have already removed from the table any dollar advantage they provide at the time a farmer buys into their product < in economic speak the marginal value added by using gmo or neo nics is from the front side of the exchange in the pocket of the people producing these products and not one red cent in the pocket of the person using the product (farmers). 

the down side of all this is these products are likely to be banned at a time when the world's population is quickly growing beyond our ability to feed everyone.  the green revolution is behind us and any gains in food production is now minimal.  so as the people in the world grow hungry this may occur just when gmo and neonics use is banned or declining and people will make a casual relationship between curtailing the use of these products and a reduced food supply.