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Author Topic: 3 phase equipment?  (Read 7349 times)

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Offline Perry

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3 phase equipment?
« on: February 15, 2016, 07:54:41 am »
I am pretty ignorant on things electrical so I'm here to ask. :-[
When you see a 3 phase table saw, is this something that most homes have the ability to power? I see an ad for one that sounds perfect for the "heavy" work of dados and hand hold cuts.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/bridgewater/rockwell-table-saw/1140387643
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Offline iddee

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 08:38:38 am »
Here, the power companies will not deliver 3 phase power into residential buildings. I don't know about Canada.
There are converters, but they aren't cheap. There are also home remedies, but may not be exactly legal.
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Offline Perry

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 09:19:21 am »
Doesn't sound like something to pursue much further.
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Offline Riverrat

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2016, 10:05:58 am »
All my shop equipment run on 3 phase I run on phase converters.  3 phase is more economical to run but has its draw backs.  To run 3-phase you have 3 choices 1 Have 3 phase provided by the power company. 2 Use a static Phase converter or 3. A rotary phase converter.  Static Phase converters are the cheapest way to go. Its a box with capacitors that basically lies to the 3 phase motor by providing a 3rd leg boost to start the motor. After the motor starts it will run on its own but you loose 1/3 of your motor horsepower because only 2 legs of power are running to the motor once it has started.  Rotary is what I use and this has its own 3 phase motor called a slave motor with a static capacitor starter that does the same thing the static converter does  starting the slave motor.  You then wire the motor you are wanting to run to the slave motor this wire connection will supply true 3 phase power to your saw. coming from the running slave motor.  A 4th option would be to buy an old 3 phase motor with a pulley or shiv.  Wire in a disconnect to power supply. Using a rope get the 3 phase motor turning and throw the switch it will then run on 2 legs.  Wire this motor in to your saw motor and it will run your 3 phase saw motor.  To go this way is cheapest as old 3 phase motors are cheap to find. I run the shop using 2 20 horse rotary phase converts that balance the power.  Cnc Equipment has to have a balanced power run to them withing +/- 3 volts if I remember right.  the rotaries I run are about $3500 each. And a 5th option  would be to remove the 3 phase motor and replace it with a regular motor like you run on your other equipment
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Offline lazy shooter

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2016, 10:51:52 am »
My warning on anything electrical.  You can't see electricity, but it can kill you.  It is very dangerous to everyone, and much more dangerous to those that do not KNOW their business.  So be very CAREFUL.  For a translation, that means hiring an expert if you are not one.
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Offline apisbees

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2016, 11:53:33 am »
For the price of the saw I would buy it and change out the motor. you would need a 2 HP on that saw. it runs a pulley and belt system so a dust sealed explosion proof motor would be needed. a new motor will be cheaper than a new 3PH converter If you can find a 2 Hp 3PH motor and a 1/4 hp single Phase cheap You use the 1/4 to drive the 3PH 2 HP and then wire the saw motor to the slave motor that provides the 3rd phase.
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Offline rwlaw

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2016, 02:36:39 pm »
Unless that thing is worn out somehow, the price is super cheap (the used ones I see around here are a grand or over). Well worth the money to p/up and refit with a two phase motor and starter box ima thinkin. Get the serial # and see if parts are still available tho.
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Offline iddee

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2016, 02:42:40 pm »
RW, I think you mean a 220 single phase. A 2 phase would be harder to get electrical for than a 3 phase.
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Offline neillsayers

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2016, 03:19:33 pm »
Perry,
An electrician can set you up a converter. I've built several of  them. If you intend on having a commercial shop, it may be wise to see what your power company wants to connect your shop. Often its simply the matter of a different transformer and new service wires. Three phase is much more efficient for power equipment in the long run.
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Offline apisbees

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2016, 04:08:54 pm »
The saw is still made it is now the delta cabinet makers saw.
The price for ones with 3 phase motors and higher voltage are cheap. do you know what the voltage of the motor is if it is higher than 208 then step up transformers are needed and it wold be cheaper to change motors
http://www.kijiji.ca/b-ontario/delta-unisaw/k0l9004
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Offline CBT

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2016, 08:00:40 pm »
I believe the minimum monthly charge for commercial 3 phase is much more than residential 220 volts. If you don't use it for a living you may want to seek the other options.
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Offline rcannon

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2016, 08:13:10 pm »
You can run the saw from any modern variable frequency drive (VFD). Yaskawa is my preference, but ABB is good too. They don't care what you feed them or what you take from them. You just have to program it correctly. In your case, you would program single phase in, 3 phase out.
A 2 hp VFD is ~ $ 500. They also provide for a soft start and you can program them to induce a quick stop, say if you were to want an emergency stop.
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Offline Zulu

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2016, 09:36:22 pm »
That's a $3k saw new. Typical second hand price about $1k.

New 2 HP 220 volt motor is about $350 ( US) and should be easy to Change the motor
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Offline neillsayers

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2016, 09:37:25 pm »
good one rcannon, I forgot about VFDs
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Offline apisbees

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2016, 11:17:58 pm »
It would be cheaper to replace the motor at about 1/2 the price. I have a vfd drive but I am not willing to give it up. Cost me $50.00 it has a rheostat so the motor RPM can be adjusted. it will handle the RPM on a 3PH motor up to 3 Hp when connected to 3 phase and will handle the RPM on a 3PH motor up to 2 Hp when connected to 1 phase 240 Volt It is new still in the box but it will get used.
http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/2-hp-totally-enclosed-fan-cooled-electric-motor/A-p8601650e
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Offline apisbees

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2016, 11:29:43 pm »
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Offline apisbees

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2016, 11:52:01 pm »
Look at this, it is a cheap fix to get the saw running on 3PH. They say they don't ship to Canada bet there are ways around. that.http://www.ebay.com/itm/4HP-3KW-VFD-DRIVE-INVERTER-PERFECT-MOTOR-AVR-TECHNIQUE-CALCULOUS-PID-/181994858328?hash=item2a5fbd2758:i:181994858328
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Offline lazy shooter

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2016, 08:14:51 am »
@Apis:

Dang Apis, is there anything you don't know.  Were I a super rich guy, I would hire you to come work for me just so I could pick your brain on varied subjects.

Seriously, you are a wealth of knowledge for this forum.  Thank you for your time.

lazy
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Offline Lburou

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2016, 09:09:00 am »
Quote from: apisbees on February 16, 2016, 11:52:01 pm
Look at this, it is a cheap fix to get the saw running on 3PH. They say they don't ship to Canada bet there are ways around. that.http://www.ebay.com/itm/4HP-3KW-VFD-DRIVE-INVERTER-PERFECT-MOTOR-AVR-TECHNIQUE-CALCULOUS-PID-/181994858328?hash=item2a5fbd2758:i:181994858328
Perry, I'd be glad to buy it and ship it to you if it would help.
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Offline CBT

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Re: 3 phase equipment?
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2016, 10:26:46 am »
You could have it sent to iddees and perry can take it back in his carry on with his flight back. I'm sure security wouldn't say anything. 8)
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