Author Topic: Helping A New Beek, Need Some Advice (Read 7815 times)

Jen · « **on:** February 18, 2016, 08:40:21 pm »

Just this week I was invited to a group meeting of women called Farm Girl Sisterhood. Now, I know nothing about farming but they do discuss bees. There were 4 women there who are newbee's, either got their bees last year, or getting bees this spring. I offered my help. The ring leader, Kim, is an engaging huggy bear kind of a gal and she said she doesn't now the next move for her tower at this point (see pic below). These farm gals are in the same dilema as myself, in that we have to travel 1 1/2 hours out of state to our mentors. I am just half hour away. I asked Kim for a pic of her hive, that I would share it with my forum, get some advice and then she and I can split this hive right and timely the first time, IF the hive needs to be split!

She got these bees and equipment last spring, bees have made it thru the winter. She does know that this hive has a lot of burr and cross comb and it did upset her to tear it all apart to make a peek inspection, so she stopped and put it all back together. So I'm imagining that it's going to be a messy project going thru this hive. I've done plenty of messy hive clean up so I'm ready for it... IF the hive needs to be cleaned up!

I'm excited about these gals, they need help, and I need bee companions, this could be the beginning of a lovely bee club

2 DEEPS OF BEES, 2 SUPERS OF HONEY

My thoughts are after seeing this pic...

1. Check the 2 supers for honey supply first, it is still winter.

2. Then, on a 60 day, open up the hive and see how many bees are in there.

3. See if there are 6 frames of brood and eggs.

4. If there is 6 frames of brood, it can be split into 2 more managable hives.

5. If the hive is split she will need to have hive bodies and frames with foundation ready.

Let's start with this first. Thanks!

iddee · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2016, 10:11:12 pm »

#1.. Get them signed up on the forum.

#2.. Get the empty frames off if there's enough to fill a box, or two.

#3.. Get a box of honey off it it leaves enough for the rest of the winter.

#4.. THEN you go into the brood chambers and decide if it's ready to split. No split before drones are flying.

Jen · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2016, 10:47:55 pm »

#1.. Get them signed up on the forum.
Check, already suggested and working on that

#2.. Get the empty frames off if there's enough to fill a box, or two.
Check, meaning consolidate honey, remove empty frames

#3.. Get a box of honey off it it leaves enough for the rest of the winter.
Scratching head, isn't that the same as #2?

#4.. THEN you go into the brood chambers and decide if it's ready to split. No split before drones are flying.
Check

Except that I think she and I should check the honey supply now, then wait for a nice 60 day to check for brood. Two visits to her house.

pistolpete · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2016, 12:07:38 am »

seems to me you just found all the customers you need for your Nucs.

The disadvantage of leaving a hive like that over the winter is that moths and hive beetles can really make a mess of the unoccupied areas. If there was no excluder used, then the bees are most likely all in the upper super. Chances are you can swipe the bottom box and clean it up, as there will be no bees in it. But you already know they do as they please, so I could be way off with my predictions.

Jen · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2016, 12:26:51 am »

Ooooooh Pete

you and I are on the same page hon! I was already thinking that if this 2 deep hive was new just last year, it's quite possible that both deeps are not full...especially considering our drought here in Cali. time will tell

And these ladies do know that I will have nucs for sale this spring... crossing fingers

Retroguy · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2016, 01:59:38 am »

Considering that I'm greener than you, Jen, you might contemplate a hive rotation. Up here on the frozen tundra Spring comes and we swap positions on the upper and lower brood chambers. IF (big if) the colony is in the upper chamber you may have the opportunity to pull the frames in the lower chamber, inspect, clean up the burr comb, etc. before placing it in the upper position. I'm not sure how one would address the full brood box which then goes to the bottom but I suppose you'd have to go after it with more smoke and work it frame-by-frame in the normal manner. I'm just thinking out loud here and there are far more experienced beeks that can let you know if this makes sense.

apisbees · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2016, 03:00:06 am »

Do not try reversing boxes to early The bees need warm days, nights and a large population to protect the brood from being chilled. especially when you start moving it on them. With the drought you faced last year if any of the supers are full and capped, ask how much she fed and for how long. it could be mostly sucrose
What Iddee said. It looks as though she got intimidated by the strength of the hive and gave into the hive rather than getting what needed to be done accomplished. Looking forward to your post when you get in to inventory the hive,
There is no need to rush to pull supers and empty frames and to make 2 trips. The hive has survived fine till now so I wouldn't pull it apart till you have a nice warm day. Hive beetles and wax moths are not a factor yet this early in the year.

Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2016, 11:30:40 pm »

Now see Retro!... If you hadn't made your post, we wouldn't have learned something new from Apis

Apis... "With the drought you faced last year if any of the supers are full and capped, ask how much she fed and for how long. it could be mostly sucrose"

Not sure why sucrose would matter? I thought the bees would eat honey or the syrup/sucrose they stored for winter?

pistolpete · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2016, 12:47:13 pm »

Retro: reversing hive bodies in the spring needs to be approached with great caution. The bees are pretty good at arranging things they way they should be. The only time reversing should be done is if there are no bees in the bottom brood box at all. Otherwise you are taking the bottom edge of the brood nest and separating it from the rest. The bees don't treat the hive like it was separate boxes, but as one continuous volume.

apisbees · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2016, 01:31:13 pm »

Quote from: Jen on February 19, 2016, 11:30:40 pm

Not sure why sucrose would matter? I thought the bees would eat honey or the syrup/sucrose they stored for winter?

Honey from nectar contains in varying quantities fructose, glucose, sucrose, maltose levulose, When the bees make honey out of sugar syrup the sugar compilation changes. I would hold any frames that i would suspect full of syrup made honey to feed back to the bees.

Dunkel · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2016, 04:55:49 pm »

I'm with pistol on waiting on that box of chocolates. I'm not sure when good and spring is there. In my area I would hit it about the first of April for the rearranging. But then if they were mine I would have to check before then to make sure they had enough resources to get them through.

Always interesting to crack into the unknown. Looks like there's a lot of equipment to work with and a person who wants to keep bees and willing to put out the cash to have them. Definitely a person who could use a nuc for additional hives. She already has enough for two hives just add bees. If mine I would think about either going with two deeps or maybe using the equipment she has in a deep medium brood chamber arrangement for a second hive. I guess it depends on the inside condition of the frames and stores at this point. Not sure about the climate again. I can go either way with a strong hive and normal conditions.

Two trips at least and the second bee prepared for a cut out. Jen with the knowledge you have gained its a shame you don't have double digit the number of hives , as much as you enjoy them. You will know what to do, you are down to the fine tuning stage of beekeeping

tecumseh · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2016, 06:33:24 pm »

everyone should remember that Jen is in California and that the season there can be impacted by the coastal effect on weather. personally I am not totally up to snuff with Jen's location but if the season is approaching spring time and the day and night time weather are not too low I would be considering going thru the hive and removing any excess space below the brood area. depending on resources and bees in the existing hive I might even reverse one empty box above the brood nest and then add a honey super on top. If the hive is well provisioned and has lots of bees then pretty quickly you will need to decide whether to split or not.

special note to Jen.... on tall hives like this and especially if there is lots of burr comb between the boxes and ideally if you have an extra hand to assist I quite often tip the whole tower of boxes on it's front or back (not the side) and then dissemble the hive from the bottom upward. for one thing the empty space is normally on the bottom and secondly parting the boxes with lots of burr comb is much easier when the entire hive is sitting horizontally rather than vertically. at some point you should know based upon any location what is an optimal configuration for keeping bees and simply piling on excessive boxes willy nilly just adds to toil in keeping bees and more importantly likely discourage a new beekeeper from getting into their hives and learning something about bees and beekeeping.

and good luck....

Jen · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2016, 12:56:13 am »

Dunkel ~ "Two trips at least and the second bee prepared for a cut out. Jen with the knowledge you have gained its a shame you don't have double digit the number of hives , as much as you enjoy them. You will know what to do, you are down to the fine tuning stage of beekeeping"

Awe Shucks Dunkel, That's a really nice thing to say

I think I would like more hives but my back is preventing me from doing that. So, this is an opportunity to be available for others to learn to be good beekeepers and increase their hives. That is why I made this post for the first time I've been asked to help. I can dawdle around with my own 3 hives, but I want to be knowledgable and efficient when working with others.

By the way Dunkel. Am I correct in remembering your story of all the bees in the basement...and a skunk?

Dunkel · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2016, 10:42:30 am »

Mad man in the basement, that's me

At least that's how my sons introduce me in the late winter and hot summer months.

Jen · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2016, 04:50:08 pm »

Two bee stories still stand out in my mind as incredible, heartfelt and funny.. Your basement story, and Lazybkpr when he was a young teen spending time with his mentor. I would like for you to copy and paste that story again, it would be so good for newbees, and give us seasoned beeks another laugh.

Zweefer · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2016, 10:38:31 pm »

Can't forget Riverbee getting pulled over by the cops with a carload full of bees

Jen · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2016, 10:55:51 pm »

That is a great story as well

riverbee · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2016, 10:56:13 am »

.......................

i will never forget that experience, and WILL NOT be repeated!

Jen · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2016, 02:41:41 pm »

Crackin' me up Riverbee

riverbee · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2016, 10:39:21 pm »

some good stories to be told jen, i think perhaps we need to have one place where these stories can be all in one place?

for new members, they have not read some of these............

dunkels story is here; the title says it all and is very, very funny!:

Yesterday Just Wasn't My Day

i am the einstein that has moved a 500 lb plus pig 80 miles to the university of minnesota and bees on a wisconsin interstate (stopped and ticketed), both in buicks, never again.
here is my short version of moving bees in a buick:

A new standard on how not to transport bees

............

enjoy!