Author Topic: precautionary question-advice please (Read 6423 times)

neillsayers · « **on:** May 04, 2016, 04:25:06 pm »

I just got word that Steve, my nuc supplier, has mailed me a laying queen to replace the virgin queen I found in my new nuc. I marked her and ought to be able to find her to get her out of there. What I'm wondering is if she is out on a mating flight or just hiding out (she's not much bigger than a worker) what's the chances that they duke it out and both die and I end up queenless again. I've seen where many keeps leave two or three cells in a hive and I guess they figure the strongest survive. I've always wondered how often do they kill each other. Also, since this queen is a VSH F1, I much rather have her than the virgin who would be F2.

Am I overthinking this?

Thanks,
Neill

iddee · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2016, 05:29:45 pm »

Don't put the new queen in until the old one is out. Even if you have to keep her caged in the house for a couple days.

neillsayers · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2016, 06:03:39 pm »

Thanks Iddee

riverbee · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2016, 08:26:38 pm »

what iddee said neil, find the virgin and send her off to the promised land.......then put the new mated queen in.

good luck and keep us posted!

rwlaw · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2016, 08:44:30 pm »

If she's marked, it sure should seem like you'll find her. Then give her the hive tool test.

apisbees · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2016, 08:51:11 pm »

here is a link to the first thread and explains to getting to here, replacing a virgin queen
http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,5423.0.html

neillsayers · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2016, 09:42:13 pm »

Thanks everyone,

I will make a serious effort to find her. If she shows mating sign, I'm considering using her for a split that I am planning this week on my older hive. Depends on if their numbers are where they should be. I really like the queen in that hive and was feeling good about getting a queen out of her for that split but if I have one ready to go, why not?

I want you all to know I truly appreciate the help and advice I find here. I'll keep you posted.

Yours,
Neill

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2016, 11:04:35 pm »

I agree with the above advice also, Or you could put the new queen in a nuc and wait and see what happens. You can always combine her if need be. Jack

neillsayers · « **Reply #8 on:** May 05, 2016, 10:04:00 pm »

The new queen arrived this afternoon. Tomorrow looks like a nice warm day so I'll be busy in the beeyard.

Questions: Any consensus on how long the hive should be queenless before I introduce the queen cage. She's in an E-Z plastic cage with tenders and candy plug. Do you all poke the candy or let the bees eat it out in their own time?

Thanks guys,

Neill

apisbees · « **Reply #9 on:** May 05, 2016, 10:20:06 pm »

With a virgin queen the hive will be very low on queen pheromones and so until they have a mated laying queen, they are and have been queenless.
I punch because I do not know how hard the candy is. soft candy the bees will consume it for food If it is hard poking a hole will get the bees chewing it away to release the queen as they can smell her. I remove attendances others do not it is a personal thing. Also time of year has a huge influence on how readily a queen is excepted. IT doesn't get any better that it is at this time of the year.

neillsayers · « **Reply #10 on:** May 05, 2016, 10:23:38 pm »

Thanks Apis

iddee · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2016, 10:44:34 pm »

As Apis said, it is easy this time of year. An hour or less is fine. The days to eat the candy is sufficient. I don't punch a hole, but I do scratch the surface is case of a hardened exterior on the candy.

neillsayers · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2016, 10:58:12 pm »

Thanks Idee

Perry · « **Reply #13 on:** May 06, 2016, 06:41:57 am »

I've posted this a long time ago but it's worth repeating, if only to prevent the same disaster. It may not apply to the type of cage you are using but the principal is the same.
I was always punching a hole in the candy, it was what I was taught. But then I started receiving the Californian style queen cages, not the 3 hole type.
(bottom of first pic, left in second pic)

I went to push a nail through the candy and the whole plug, black plastic tube and candy, slid right into the space and squashed a perfectly good queen.
Since then I don't poke holes in candy. If you feel you must, use a screw and be careful.

neillsayers · « **Reply #14 on:** May 06, 2016, 07:17:55 pm »

Thanks Perry,

This one came in one of those cute little plastic cages with a tube full of candy. Not nearly as much candy as the three hole cages come with.

neillsayers · « **Reply #15 on:** May 06, 2016, 07:40:57 pm »

Big doings today.

With all the good advice I got here I felt confident to dive off into my queen replacement project. When I went in I was carefully looking for eggs. Even brought my cheaters out to the yard (prescription readers and a jewelers visor, with these I can see a zit on a gnat's behind!)
Okay, no eggs and just about all of the larva I saw 4 days ago is capped. I also saw seven, yes seven emergency cells. Sooooo, when I found that little virgin? queen I sent her to the alcohol bath. I had hoped to use her on a split to give them a head start. She has to be at least 8 days old, so my assumption was if the colony had no faith in her neither should I. Please weigh in if I was wrong in this, only way to learn.

Then I went to my Russian warre hive and inspected them. They were booming. 10 out of sixteen bars full of brood and the rest in pollen and nectar.
Took that queen and 5 combs of brood and bees and 2 bars stores and moved them to a new hive. Original hive has a lot of unhatched eggs for them to choose from to rear a new queen.

Fed everybody and called it a day.
Fingers crossed that I didn't make any fatal errors!

riverbee · « **Reply #16 on:** May 06, 2016, 09:15:22 pm »

" I also saw seven, yes seven emergency cells. Sooooo, when I found that little virgin? queen I sent her to the alcohol bath. I had hoped to use her on a split to give them a head start. She has to be at least 8 days old, so my assumption was if the colony had no faith in her neither should I. Please weigh in if I was wrong in this, only way to learn."

neil you made a good decision.

i like the jz bees plastic cages, better than the benton's. i don't poke a hole through, just test to make sure the candy isn't too hard, (usually not), bees can chew the heck out of winter insulation, and they can chew hard candy.......and they do (might take them a little longer........but need to check the queen is released). i also like these cages, and the roller cages.....keep them around, especially the roller cages to run queens into.

you can requeen as apis and iddee said within an hour this time of year, (these are not older cranky bees).

thanks for your update and post!

EXCELLENT!!!............

neillsayers · « **Reply #17 on:** May 06, 2016, 09:58:57 pm »

Thanks RB,

When I split those russkies it took about 10 minutes for the original hive to let out a roar. Wow, what a communication system they've got!

Lburou · « **Reply #18 on:** May 06, 2016, 11:10:05 pm »

Neil, given the choice between a virgin of unknown quality and a mated queen doing a good job, I would choose the proven queen every time. You did good!

neillsayers · « **Reply #19 on:** May 06, 2016, 11:16:00 pm »

Lee,

I was hoping she would be laying because I knew I was going to split my other hive and thought it would give them a jumpstart but under the circumstances made the choice to just let them raise another queen of their own genetics, which I have been pleased with.