Riverbee's Journey

[lazy shooter]

Jen's comment caused the below sidebar:

My father, dad as we say, was a horse whisperer.  All animals connected to him.  It was a gift that did not inherit.  I treat all animals with respect, but animals to not make that magical, mystical hook up that they did with dad.  He's been gone since October 7, 1973, and I still think of him every day.  I long to see him again.

River's journey has been so educational to me.  I didn't realize that one could become deathly allergic to something in an instance.  In my non bio mind it seemed that an allergy would build, and I didn't realize that people could get stung and die from that sting because their immune system has undergone a radical change.  Since River's journey over the past three or so years, I have learned and read of others having severe reactions to stings.  A young man died this past spring from wasp stings in our community.  His family said that "he had not been allergic to stings, period."  Another middle aged man dies two weeks back after taking an inoculation from some type of illness.  Immune systems can change suddenly.  I find that amazing.

I repeat, River's journey has been so education to me and I assume to many others.  We have learned from her doctors and her reporting.  This has been a long, and for the most part, well thought post.  From disaster has come some valuable information, for all of us.  Good on River for sharing her journey.

[efmesch]

This forum for beekeepers would be lacking a great deal if we didn't have this vast collection of vital information in Riverbee's journey. I'm wondering if mentioning the allergy aspect of the thread would get it to be opened by a lot more beekeepers who don't klnow what it's about.
May I suggest to the moderators that the title of this thread be adjusted to something like "Riverbee's jouney with bee-sting allergy" or "Riverbee's sting anaphylaxis"?
Every beekeeper should read this thread in its' entirety.  The information is vital to us all.

[Jen]

I like that idea Ef! I'm sure more would read the title and be interested 

[iddee]

And the one to decide has the power to do it if she wants. It's up to her.

[efmesch]

Well--Riverbee is a moderator isn't she?

 I shall redirect my suggestion to the doubly entitled person to decide---

River, what do you think about the suggestion?  I'm not pressuring, no rush, just give it a thought.

[riverbee]

ef,  i have thought of your suggestion, and my apologies for not responding much sooner. 
this thread was started because of my allergy, i think it is also about many other things and thoughts that helped me to appreciate who and what i am in my life and has taken on other characteristics and some story telling......so a journey. and my hopes that someone else will benefit from anything posted in this thread.  i don't know how to describe this, other than to say, when one has a life threatening experience, there are many things one thinks of going forward from that point. for me, there has been a great deal of introspection and struggle.  bees are so magical and mystical to me.  i will never learn enough about them. with that said, so are many other 'places' and relationships in my life.  these  are more important to me.....if i could never keep bees again, i would accept it and move on.

nothing can describe the change in me i guess, at how i embrace/feel/think of my family; my parents, my brothers and sister, my son, my grandchildren and closest friends.   

somewhere in all of this, and all of these posts, story telling, etc, and 'conversing'  with forum members on this thread; mixed in with what i have learned was and is just my way of dealing with it.  a journey there.......if that makes sense? should i keep bees or not? are the injections going to work? the doc says so. lots of other questions and thoughts and i decided not to worry about all of this.   to me, i don't want to be known or pegged (especially to google..... ) as the anaphylactic beekeeper/the allergic beekeeper......
i just want to be me, riverbee.
 
goofy smiley but it works.......

[Jen]

I am humbled by your reply Riverbee, knowing much of that self explored journey myself ~hugs~

[lazy shooter]

We say in the oil patch that you never know a person until you see them in a "nine line bind."  Drilling rigs work from a traveling block that usually carries four and one-half wraps (nine lines) of heavy cable to lift the drill pipe up and down.  When something sticks the pipe it is critical and the weight increases by hundreds of thousand pounds.  That weight is distributed across the nine lines, hence the nine line bind.  Riverbee has been in that nine line bind over the past two or so years.  She had to have the treatment because whether she keeps bees on not, she is still the rugged outdoors Montana gal.  The sun has to shine on her old body, and she has to bumble about in the great out of doors.  She has to wade in those trout streams and feel that rocky bottom on her feet and she needs to walk in those meadows and feel the grass around her calves.  It's who she is, and it's what she would have given up if not treated for allergic reactions to stings.  Without immunotherapy Riverbee would have been and indoor couch potato wording about the next sting.  That's a picture that doesn't even enter my mind.  It's oblivious. 

Riverbee will exit life with sun burned wrinkles on her body and physical scars from all those injuries that the out-of-doors crowd accumulates in their daily lives.  (think about something thrown from the Hillbillies snow blower)  Each wrinkle and scar will carry a story of the old pioneer stock lady that just had to keep on keeping on.  With or without bees she's the same gal.  I'll place my bet on "with bees." 

thank you lazy ~

[iddee]

 

[efmesch]

Riverbee,  you are inspirational.  I'll happily continue with you, and all your firends, on your journey. 
May it continue as a long, healthy and happy journey. 

thanks ef

[riverbee]

a couple pix from yesterday, this is what i like to see in a hive going into winter:



a close up:



this hive is extraordinary.  the last one standing since i developed the infamous allergy.  it hasn't been touched, divided, requeened in two years and to my knowledge has not swarmed. just very little management in two years. 3 years ago, this hive was a divide from a russian queen/hive utilizing swarm cells.  i have no idea what the queen is in this hive, a mutt for sure, but can say, this was the hive that the queen took flight last year on mr river when he lifted the inner cover off and she was on it. he spent some time on his hands and knees looking for her underneath the pallet the hive sat on......  

i have not seen the queen, but i sure would like to get this hive through the winter and use any swarm cells from her for increase next spring.  she has been very gentle, and productive;  producing  a good amount of honey in two seasons, has not been treated for mites and has wintered well the past three winters.   

it was a beautiful fall day here yesterday, 68 degrees, sun shining, no breeze when i opened it up.  i removed the last of the honey frames i had set in, (rather than syrup) and wanted to check for honey stores, the weight.  i had placed a two inch shim on last weekend, they sure like having the extra space, and gives me room to add any feed on in winter months.  in one month i will probably add a winter patty and will wrap on or before thanksgiving. some of the bees are a beautiful golden color, and i did see some drones.  really unusual for this time of year, but it has been a warmer fall again.

when i opened her up, i spotted a 'bee' in my veil........?........i walked away, trying to remain calm, unzipped the veil and removed it to find i had a yellow jacket on the inside of my veil......SHAH!!!.....HOLY YOU KNOW WHAT!!!!........    nearly peed my pants thinking i had a yellow jacket flying around on the INSIDE of my veil!  talk about some fear and a dance after i got the thing out and smashed it!....
anyway, i went back and opened the hive.  i was amazed, i had only sent a puff of smoke across the bottom board and a little puff to the top entrance.  i had no bees in the air, and no bees bumping the veil.  i was like, 'what's up with that?'.  so i was mesmerized and just watched for a little bit, took a few pix before i put the inner cover back on, and closed her up. 

i have yet to take any stings, i did take a sting to my left leather glove 3 weeks ago, but nothing to penetrate.  i wanted to lose the gloves yesterday, but after the yellow jacket wandering around in my veil, i decided to keep the gloves on......

some day maybe!

[Jen]

I remember a post you commented on this summer, the poster asked 'What Do I Need To Look For When Inspecting?'

I remember you saying,"When I open the lid I want to see lots and lots of bees on top of the frames."  I've been using that bit of advice since then.

Your pics of the bees on top of the frames is just phenomenal! That's got to be thrilling to see that much healthy productivity 

[riverbee]

thanks jen for your comments.  for me, opening a hive is phenomenal in and of itself and to see the bees this healthy going into winter, i am very, very happy.  they have a chance.  i like to see bees solid on the frames, rolling over the tops as these were, with good honey stores put away.  the hive has managed to make it with little intervention or management from me. i was mesmerized as i said, when i took the inner cover off, and had no bees in the air, irritated or annoyed.  i scraped some burr comb off the tops of the frames, still no reaction from the bees. i just enjoyed and snapped a couple pix.  we take looking at bees for granted i think.  i realized that i don't, i wanted to watch them much longer than i did.
 

[Jen]

Riv- 'we take looking at bees for granted i think.  i realized that i don't, i wanted to watch them much longer than i did.
 
  I find that I do the same, once I have the lid off I prop it up on the back edge of the hive up against the fence. The whole inside lid and top frames are wide open. I can stand there and watch and spot my pretty pink/red bees, the black ones, the soft caramel girls... and I think it sets the tone for the inspection...  well most of the time anyways 

[riverbee]

injections today,
all three went SWELL............ 
actually, no discomfort, no swelling, no itching, nothing.  no ice packs, no benadryl.  yipppeee!
my shot doc noticed a rather large bruise on my upper left arm, and commented about it; thinking my injection in that arm might be painful, it wasn't. in reply to her i said i had forgotten about it, and she asked how did i get the bruise.........well, boot laces that came undone, and graceful as i am, tripping and falling into an inanimate object....

i want to share an article from last month's American Bee Journal....actually this is from "The Classroom". a question and answer section by Jerry Hayes.
this stirred some thoughts from me about a number of things. allergies really are 'diseases'. antibodies in your immune system can get 'confused' and attack your body in various ways to fight off what the antibodies think is foreign or harmful, but really is not. many things can cause your antibodies to go haywire and will attack your own immune system and  sometimes other organs in your body that are functioning properly. this is a really simple explanation, but i do know this to be true.

in this article this is the first time i have read an american doctor admit that bee sting allergies and anaplyhlactic reactions may be caused from ingestion of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents, rather than antibodies going haywire ie: aspirin, or ibuprofen. (barbarian, hope you read this)  i have read studies in the uk, that suggest that beekeepers, and long time beekeepers, who have not experienced allergic reactions in the past, do so, once suffering an injury and use an anti-inflammatory agent. "Aspirin and non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents (ibuprofen and others) can sometimes produce anaphylaxis-like reactions.  These are called "anaphylactoid" reactions and are not due to actual allergy (antibodies) but rather to known drug effects on the immune system"  if one goes back to my first post in this thread, i suffered an injury. the anaphylaxis came on after that injury and a number of other stressors. i also have an autoimmune illness (in remission for about 8 years).  i think there is truth to what this physician says, but no doctor i have seen; internist, immunologist or endocrinologist will admit to the possibility that an anapyhlactic reaction may be caused by other factors than antibodies going haywire. also i disagree with what he says about arthritic relief from bee venom BUT....a good read and thought provoking on bee sting sensitivity.

American Bee Journal October 2014
‘The Classroom’ by Jerry Hayes
Question and Answer Column ~ Page # 1065

Question:
STING SENSITIVITY
I am rather new at 62 to beekeeping and have neuropathy in my legs.  I just recently realized that after getting stung daily or the days I get stung 10 to 30 times, I have more mobility and less burning in my legs.  I read about sting therapy, but do you know of any professional beekeeper who lost his resistance or is now allergic to being stung?  I would rather endure the discomfort of the stings then take all this medicine.  I carry an Epi-Pen and Benadryl in the dedicated truck in case someone else needs it.
Thanks from New JERSEY

ANSWER BY JERRY HAYES:
I am not a Dr. nor have I ever played one on TV.  But I do know a real MD.  Dan Goldstein, who helped me out with this:
“There are anecdotal reports of bee sting treatment (apitherapy) for peripheral neuropathy and other medical conditions.  However, there is no compelling evidence demonstrating that bee venom is effective except as a desensitizing agent for individuals with bee venom allergy.  Limited studies suggest possible efficacy for arthritis
* (http://www.bidme.org?Your Health/HolisticHealth/AlternativeHealth.aspx?ChunkID=13504).

(*the above url is invalid.)

"Bee venom is toxic by design, and produces a variety of inflammatory changes (that) can alter overall immune responsiveness.  This might explain relief of your symptoms, but some 'caution’ is in order.  There are many case reports of local nerve injury following bee stings, and while recurrent stings may produce a “resistance “(probably due to antibodies against bee venom components) they can also result in sufficient sensitization (other types of antibodies) that trigger anaphylactic response.  In short, I won't try to deny your personal experience, but the effectiveness of apitherapy and the risks and benefits have not been adequately investigated.  I cannot generally recommend this without further study.  You are wise to be prepared with an epi-pen, especially if you continue to experience (intentionally or otherwise) multiple stings on an ongoing basis.

“Beekeepers should be aware of several issues related to medications and anaphylactic reactions, especially older individuals were more likely to be of medications.  Aspirin and non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents (ibuprofen and others) can sometimes produce anaphylaxis-like reactions.  These are called "anaphylactoid" reactions and are not due to actual allergy (antibodies) but rather to known drug effects on the immune system.  Certain blood pressure medications known as " ACE inhibitors" (captopril,lisinopril, etc.) can also cause anaphylactoid reactions.  A few authors suggest that these medications may increase the risk of sensitization and may even "re-sensitize" previously desensitized individuals.  More likely there is an interaction between response to bee venom and medications, resulting in a minor or even unrecognized reaction becoming much more serious.  Finally, being on certain beta blocker type medications for blood pressure may reduce the effectiveness of epinephrine in the event of an allergic reaction and may increase the risk of adverse affects from epinephrine.  If you have concerns about these interactions, you should consult with your physician before altering or discontinuing any treatment.  Concerns about interactions with epinephrine should not deter you from using an epi-pen in the event of a serious anaphylactic reaction as this is a life-threatening condition.”

This is a lot of detail, so the conclusion is to see your doctor to talk through your specific situation. 

***********************
(end of article)

[riverbee]

my 6 week injections were  on december 22nd, and i  neglected to update my thread.  i did have a larger than normal welt from the honey bee injection than i normally experience, the welt dissipated over night. i am not concerned about it.  next injections are in another 6 weeks, i was hoping to go to 8 weeks, doc says not yet. 

my shot doc and another were  quite busy, waiting room full of patients waiting for allergy shots.  apparently they have scaled back their hours for winter months. i always wait the 30 minutes after the injections and chat with the receptionist with whom i have come to know the past 3 years.  when  my 30 minutes were up, i stood up, wished her a merry christmas, a happy new year,  c ya in 6 weeks.  she replied by returning the well wishes, and added  "i hope you enjoy your christmas" .  my reply ? (said in jest):
"i will, i don't have any family coming to mess it up."
...............
i heard some giggles and snickers from behind me in the waiting room, and funny, two teenage boys who clearly understood and apparently appreciated what i said.........LOL!

EPI PENS; if anyone would like to take advantage again this year for a prescription on an epi-pen at little or no cost, please see my post here, mylan is once again offering this for 2015:

EPI PEN Zero Dollar Co-Pay Offer 2015

december was very hectic for me, and into the first few days of january. mr. rb's firm moved their offices of 2 floors  to another building, just days before christmas, through christmas and new years.  their volunteer movers and helpers  were.......you guessed it.........a limited number of partners and associates and some of the spouses.  and i do mean limited.  i suggested they hire "two men and a truck".  (moving company less costly than others). leave it to 2 floors full of attorneys to be cost effective.  the stress meter in our household?  just call us the bickersons......the good thing about the move was they didn't have to move furniture,  it was all sold or donated,  and new was purchased.  i was asked to cut a rather large  conference table in half with a skilsaw if it couldn't be sold to get it in the elevator because they didn't want to pay a carpenter to do it.  it was sold and the buyer's problem to get it 6 flights down. 

on the 2nd of january, my prince bickerson came home ill with the flu and crashed.  he doesn't get sick. i quarantined him, i didn't want to get this stuff. on the 3rd of january, in the morning, the phone rang and it was his cell #.  i thought what the heck? did he lose his cell phone? nope, it was him from the spare bedroom calling me on the home phone with a 'request'........... on the 5th of january, monday, i ran for a prescription for tamiflu.  i had to gas up my jeep first, and ran into a small problem with the locking gas cap being frozen up and had to unthaw it in -30F windchill at the gas pump. i wasn't feeling well myself that day. needless to say, i came down with the bug.

last evening, i crashed on the couch for different scenery and put a movie in, and fell asleep.  i was awakened with 'pirates of the carribean, curse of the black pearl' blasting through the surround sound and prince bickerson shaking me and asking me if i was deaf........... , well yes i am sort of LOL.........it had awakened him one floor up.  i had somehow rolled on or pushed a button on a brand new smart remote i had recently programmed(harmony 650) , and the volume i unknowingly managed to turn up just sent the surround sound; johnny depp and the black pearl rumbling upstairs......
love johnny depp!

all in all, christmas and new years was good, minus the move, the stress, the flu and the frigid temps. now looking forward to spring!......

[lazy shooter]

@riverbee:

Moving is the most tedious, tenuous, mind muddling experience in life.  I would rather be whipped with a dead squirrel than to move one room of our house.  We always move the guns first and lock them in a safe for obvious reasons.  Even if you hire movers, it is still stressful, make that STRESSFUL. 

Gee, has it been three years?  It sure doesn't seem that long, but "time flies when you have fun."  I have fun nearly all of the time, and I think Riverbee does also.  It's got to be fun to be "old big momma" on this forum, and to know every dang thing in the world about honey bees.

Ever how long it's been, this has been the longest running thread that I have been associated with.  It's been informative, educational, thought provoking, and to sum it up its just been riverbee.

[Ray4852]

Riverbee

I get my shots now every six weeks. Next year every 8 weeks. Shots are working. I'm glad I’m in the program. 

[Curtchann]

riverbee,
I'm glad you carry your own Epi pens. As a FF/MFR, we have been informed that the new county protocol where we live is that the ambulance's won't be carrying them. I can't give someone an EPI pen, I can only assist the individual.

[Gypsi]

Glad you are on the mend RB.  Johnny Depp is splendid!