Doing the splits ...

[Wandering Man]

I can't do the splits, never could.  I'm too inflexible.

Now I'm wondering if I can split a hive?

The little nuc that we've been nursing along had another surprise for me today.

Back on March 2, I peeked in and was aghast at the mess a small hive beetle had caused.  I pulled dirty frames, cleaned things up, replaced the bottom board and put in two replacement frames of honey and brood.
I was left with one queen cell.

Then I decided to try a paper combine with the bees in the nuc and a new frame of honey and brood from a second hive.  I pulled the frames from the hive next too it.  I made sure there were eggs.  The first frame had the queen, so I put that one back and picked up another frame.  It had eggs, so it went into the nuc.

I remember cringing as I was putting the frames in the big hive back together.  The frames were stuck, then went together with a jolt!  I was worried I'd killed my queen.

I put the paper on, followed by the new nuc and frames.  I failed to perforate the paper or notice that I put in two sheets of paper, resulting in some really angry bees.

That was back on the second.

I managed to put a hole in the paper, and waited a couple of days before tearing things apart and putting the frames and the bees in the bottom section of the nuc.  I noticed dead bees, larvae, and a few more SHB larvae on the bottom board, so I switched out bottom boards again, to help them along.

There hasn't been much movement from the nuc the last two days because of temps in the 50's and lots of rain.  However, each morning I was greeted with a few dead larvae and bees on the porch.

Today, a little warmer, so 3Reds and I decided to take look.  I was dreading what I would see: the return of the SHB larvae.

Instead, I was shocked to see a queen with a white dot scurrying along the comb.  I managed to transfer her from the hive next to the nuc into the nuc when I added the brood on the 2nd!

So, I guess my pine hive is the one that's been extra defensive lately.  I stole their queen.  And it looks like it will be March 23 or 24 before they have a laying queen again.

I hope they survive despite my bumbling efforts.

[Perry]

We learn till the day its over! Mistakes are only mistakes if we repeat them, and lessons learned are easier to remember when they're tough lessons.
As Jack "occasionally" likes to remind me, when picking up a brood box you set on its side till you got more gear, make sure you pick it up the same way you set it down, otherwise all the frames full of bees just fall out.

[Wandering Man]

 

Thanks

[CBT]

That's why we put those cute handholds so you can't pick it wrong. Most of the time. But again we are beekeepers. And we love a challenge.

[Wandering Man]

We thought about buying a new queen for the hive.  3Reds reminded me that the new queen would be emerging about the time we got the new queen.

Then I realized we would essentially be hiring an assassin to come in and murder the virgin queen.

So, we'll wait and wish her a long life and prosperity, instead.

(Please don't tell the cops that I was looking to hire an assassin)

[Perry]

That's why we put those cute handholds so you can't pick it wrong. Most of the time. But again we are beekeepers. And we love a challenge.

That was one of the major reasons I invested in a moulding head cutter instead of using just dado blades to cut my hand holds. With straight dado cuts there is no difference in "up or down".

[riverbee]

"Now I'm wondering if I can split a hive?
Instead, I was shocked to see a queen with a white dot scurrying along the comb.  I managed to transfer her from the hive next to the nuc into the nuc when I added the brood on the 2nd!
So, I guess my pine hive is the one that's been extra defensive lately.  I stole their queen.  And it looks like it will be March 23 or 24 before they have a laying queen again."


wm, i wouldn't be splitting either of them.  just leave them as is. let the nuc with the stolen queen build itself out and your pine hive raise a new queen.
and i would also let them alone a little now, give them a break............
i know it's tempting to open up nucs/hives but sometimes less poking around is better

[tecumseh]

for those not comfortable with finding the queen when they wish to split a hive you may wish to consider the Doolittle Method of nuc making..... this does require a queen excluder < personal note.... I use this method quite a lot here and it allows me to scale up nuc making with limited labor input.

[Wandering Man]

Well, I know I shouldn't be messing around with these poor nuc bees, but now that I've got them started, I'm realizing the bees have only one frame of foundation that's not been drawn and filled.

At what point do I move them into a 10 frame deep? How do people who raise nucs keep thei bees from swarming?

[Perry]

I would be thinking of moving them into a regular deep before too long. Nucs either have to be made weaker (by robbing the odd frame of bees and brood) or moved to larger quarters to prevent swarming.

[riverbee]

"Well, I know I shouldn't be messing around with these poor nuc bees, but now that I've got them started, I'm realizing the bees have only one frame of foundation that's not been drawn and filled.

At what point do I move them into a 10 frame deep? How do people who raise nucs keep thei bees from swarming?"

wm, your nuc has a stolen queen..........?

lol, anyway is this a 4 frame or a 5 frame nuc? and what position is the frame of foundation?
i wouldn't worry too much about the foundation, i would be more concerned about giving the queen enough laying space and bees packed in the nuc.
move them into a deep before the queen runs out of space, and the nuc gets too crowded.

[Wandering Man]

More like a hobo who grabbed the last train out of town ...

The foundation frame was on the outside.

3Reds and I moved them into a ten frame yesterday. I thought we were done, but 3Reds insisted on adding the frame feeder with 1:1 syrup to stimulate comb building.

... and to feed the bees.  She loves to feed things; the dogs, the birds, me .... 

[CBT]

It's a wonderful life.

[riverbee]

"More like a hobo who grabbed the last train out of town ...

The foundation frame was on the outside.

3Reds and I moved them into a ten frame yesterday. I thought we were done, but 3Reds insisted on adding the frame feeder with 1:1 syrup to stimulate comb building.

... and to feed the bees.  She loves to feed things; the dogs, the birds, me ....  "

.....................

wm 3 reds is right on......feed them til the comb is drawn out and also gives a boost to your new nuc.........they don't have the forage force right now, so a little extra syrup doesn't hurt..........to feed them, draw comb, sustain them.......etc........

[LazyBkpr]

  To be honest, when starting a nuc I very much LIKE to do what you did, give the weak nuc the queen and let the strong hive raise a new queen, provided I dont have cells or a purchased queen.
  I do the same thong for swarm management. When I see swarm cells I look for the queen, It can be difficult in a strong hive, when i find her I move her to a nuc with frames/brood/bees so those bees think they swarmed, Or. at the least realize they cant swarm because they both have no queen and are weaker than they were.

   Mistakes will be made right straight to the end, fortunately the bees will usually work hard to fix whatever we mess up.

[tecumseh]

when it comes to bees I am not much of a true believer in walk away nucs..... especially when it comes to novice beekeepers.  Timed exactly right and these can work out but there are simply too many things you have no control over that can make this strategy go south very quickly.

[Wandering Man]

Well, we've come full circle with the split. We went into the hive. Lots of drones a fair amount of honey, a little bit of pollen some workers, and no queens or eggs, or larvae.

My first thought was to order a queen. But as 3Reds and I talked things over, we realized that we should probably just put the remnants of this hive back with their original queen. So tonight we've got the old hive on top of the new, separated by a piece of newspaper.

I'm not sure I need the paper.

The hive now has three deeps.

Next week I'll pull my top deep off, and I'll finally have some drawn comb.

Learned a lot.

Not the outcome I expected.