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Author Topic: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter  (Read 12667 times)

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Offline blueblood

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Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« on: February 22, 2014, 02:18:17 pm »
We have had a long, wet and snowy winter here in Indiana.  The gals have been taking for the air this week for the first time in weeks.  Here are a few pics of a couple of my hives that have heavy poop paintings on them  I am not one to treat my hives.  So, If an old salt tells me the hive is going to die, I guess it's going to die.  I am only seeing this on a few of the hives this heavy.

I found an a thread similar to this on popular bee forum and found it interesting.  One reply started a discussion about the the size and shape of the poop splatter as to whether or not it was friend or foe to the bee's digestive system.  As in, Nosema or just simple need to take care of business after being in the hive so long.  Another, said the Nosema will pass without treatment once the weather allowed the bees to be bees.  One suggested looking in the hive for poop most notably on the top of the frames to find real trouble with Nosema and suggesting poop on the outside of the hive was not as much as a concern. 







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Offline Perry

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 02:23:35 pm »
Pics 1 and 2 seem normal to me. Pic 3 is different in that it suggests the bees did their thing right near an entrance(?) rather than take flight to do it. Heavy defecation in one area, near an entrance might cause me to investigate (when weather co-operates of course). :-\
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Offline iddee

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 04:01:31 pm »
I would not bother to investigate. I would be throwing the  fumidil to them while they are still alive.
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Offline blueblood

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 05:59:00 pm »
Quote from: iddee on February 22, 2014, 04:01:31 pm
I would not bother to investigate. I would be throwing the  fumidil to them while they are still alive.

I am just not sold on Fumidil.  Plus, I am not sure it isn't just dysentery.  I have pasted two links below that may help a keeper now or in the future when they come across this thread.  One is a general information sheet on Fumidil and the other is from Michael Bush (you have to find the title Fumidil). 

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/fumidilb.html
http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm

I am just a 3rd year keeper and I respect that experince is king.  However, I have done my share of reading.  I don't just read anybody's experiences.  I pay attention to old geezers like Iddee here  O:-) and well respected keepers elsewhere.  I weigh in on the theories/opinions/results and form my own plan of action.  I test it, adjust as necessary and move forward.

INTERESTING SIDE NOTE: I ventured back to the yard an hour ago and noticed the bees had cleaned off most of of the entrance to the yellow tbh round entrance and the blue hive.  It didn't rain today either.  These bees, I am always intrigued by them.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2014, 06:21:45 pm »
"I would not bother to investigate. I would be throwing the  fumidil to them while they are still alive."
"I respect that experince is king."

and how about experience is queen?....... :D
what iddee said, throw the fumidil on them when you can.  did you have defecation inside the hive and on tops the frames?

bees will clean it off the exterior of the hive, doesn't mean you don't have a case of nosema going on.....just my two cents.....they are tidy insects.
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Offline blueblood

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2014, 06:50:12 pm »
Queens too Miss B.  ;)

I haven't cracked any of my lids just yet.  Still have inclement weather on the horizon. 

Heck naw, no chemicals going in my hives.  I know, I'm stubborn..... :P
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 07:10:11 pm »
blue, understand that you don't want chemicals in your hives......on the flip side....if your bees are sick, you would not treat them to save them?
i am of the same mindset, no treatments unless i see signs of something they need help with...... ;)

let's say, you get them all the way through winter and lose them to sickness, because they were not given a little fumidil.....?
just something to think about, i might be wrong but just my two cents..... :)
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Offline iddee

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 07:17:51 pm »
Compare them to your kids. Would you give your kids chemicals if they were sick?
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Offline blueblood

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 07:26:04 pm »
Quote from: riverbee on February 22, 2014, 07:10:11 pm
blue, understand that you don't want chemicals in your hives......on the flip side....if your bees are sick, you would not treat them to save them?
i am of the same mindset, no treatments unless i see signs of something they need help with...... ;)

let's say, you get them all the way through winter and lose them to sickness, because they were not given a little fumidil.....?
just something to think about, i might be wrong but just my two cents..... :)

I understand, but is there something less controversial and/or natural to treat with?
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Offline iddee

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 07:30:14 pm »
Ordering new packages. Fumidil works.
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Offline blueblood

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2014, 07:37:16 pm »
Quote from: iddee on February 22, 2014, 07:17:51 pm
Compare them to your kids. Would you give your kids chemicals if they were sick?

You got me there Iddee.  We have always made sure our children have good nutrition with moderation on junk (sodas, sweets, fast goods).  They are very rarely sick.  I am not a big fan of the overuse of antibiotics in humans.  I think most humans should try to let their body fight it off if they can and reserve antibiotics for the most stubborn infections.  I wouldn't allow them to have medicines that are banned in a significant amount of other countries. 

I observed the spots on a few of my hives last year.  It dissipated and they are still thriving today.  I know you are looking out for my best interest but I am just not comfortable with it.

Who feeds "survivor bees" in the wild Fumidil?  Maybe they die?  Maybe that is the one of the reasons for the decline of the honeybee, lack of preventative or post care in the wild?
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Offline iddee

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2014, 07:41:33 pm »
I agree with you, so much that I finally went to the hospital with my third heart attack. I also know nosema is about the most devastating disease the bees get , just after AFB. It is the only disease I treat for.

PS. AFB I don't treat, I burn.
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Offline blueblood

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2014, 07:45:31 pm »
Oh my gosh! I can't imagine how much that third one had to have hurt to convince you to go to the ER.  Ha! I don't know, I will do a little more research.  I wish there was something I could try that is natural.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2014, 07:49:23 pm »
Maybe Pepto-Bismol??   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

or castor oil?
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Offline blueblood

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2014, 08:11:53 pm »
Ha! I would be the first keeper to have pink honey...
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2014, 08:27:41 pm »
"I understand, but is there something less controversial and/or natural to treat with?"

blue, what is natural about keeping bees anymore?  if i may, why would we let our bees suffer?  nature is not kind to bees, neither are the mites, pests, and diseases.  if we want them to survive and be healthy.....?
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2014, 12:47:33 pm »
I am not a fan of treating. But then, I am also not a fan of letting them die.
   If I have bees prone to getting sick I try to find them a batter queen.
  Treating them so they don't die, and getting them a different queen is a lot easier than installing a new package.
   I understand the tough love theory, and I accept that it WILL work over time. I just don't have that time. WIll I live ten more years? Twenty? so if I do live 20 years, that is 20 more springs to do splits. 20 times I need to prepare them for winter. 20 times I can hope for a honey harvest.
  In the meantime, if I am losing them to problems I could have fixed, I also lose time I can never get back. SO I treat, and I give them a new queen to see if she brings about a healthier hive that doesnt need treated.
   I also use things that I hope do not build up int he wax, like Oxalic Acid and HopGuard. Then I make sure to rotate their wax so its not over three years old..  that certainly cuts into the honey I would get, but feel that it gives them a healthier comb and hive with the neonics, pesticides and fungicides they are exposed to here in farm country.
   We all have to raise our bees how we think is best. Just consider the time and expense involved, and remember it is limited.  There comes a time to give up on a weak hive. Combine it and start fresh. If I can limit the amount of times I have to start fresh it gives me more to work with in the time I have left.
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Offline Jen

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2014, 02:17:44 pm »
Hey Blue,  :)  ""I am just not sold on Fumidil.  Plus, I am not sure it isn't just dysentery.""

You commented on reading as much as you can, me too. But when I have a problem that I'm not confindent how to handle I go to Randy Oliver 

He has done an insurmountable amount of scientific work on helping us help the bees. I think you answer is here ~

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/   :) 8)
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2014, 05:31:47 pm »
what lazybk said~
"I am not a fan of treating. But then, I am also not a fan of letting them die"
 great entire post lazy!   :yah:

ps jen, i really enjoy reading randy oliver's articles, some great material there!
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Offline Marbees

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Re: Nosema or Normal Results from Being Cooped Up All Winter
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 07:42:28 pm »
blueblood - Plus, I am not sure it isn't just dysentery.

There is only one way to find out, not to treat.
But that could be too costly.
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